It is 10:21 on September 30th, we took a short break. This is Kathi Alizadeh. Sheila Whirley, as well as all 12 grand jurors and the court reporter. And we are now going to play for you a recorded statement that was done of , who was the gentleman who we just played the statement that he made to the County Police.
This is the statement that he made last week during an FBI interview. I just looked and it appears to an hour and 18 minutes long, and it is cued up and ready to go. If we don't have transcripts as of right now because the statement was only last week.
So if we get transcripts while you're still seated in this matter, I'll get those to you for your review later.
All right. And at this time I will ask you, to pause the recording while we play the recorded statement of
(This is the interview of
Today is September 24th, it is 10:10 a.m. This is Special Agent I'm here with DOJ trial attorney and USA
And would you state your name, sir?
, okay. I met you before.
(inaudible) My name is and I am with the Civil Rights Division of the Department of Justice, and is a prosecutor here, federal prosecutor based here in St. Louis. So we are working on this investigation with the FBI, and because we know you gave an interview with the County Police, we didn't get a chance to meet you and we wanted to meet you, okay?
Okay. So all your answers need to be out loud because this is being recorded, but if you nod your head or shake your head I'll remind you.
I understand. And I'm sure you know this, and I have no doubt that we just want you to know that if you talk, some type of false statement or lie or embellish or exaggerate, it's a crime to make false statements to federal agents, we want you to know that.
I understand. Okay. And we want what you know versus what you assume. So if there is a distinction when you talking about something and you assume it, we want to know what you assumed versus what you, yourself, know, what you heard and saw that today.
Okay. It is natural that you've heard other names and we may need to ask you about that as well, but we want your observation. It is important not to guess, if you guess, let us know.
Okay. If I ask a question, and you answer a question that seems confusing, let us know because if you answer, we'll assume that you understand.
Okay. Okay? Uh-huh. And you know you're at the FBI, and you came through security, but we want to make that you know it is voluntary. So at any point you have had enough, you want to leave, you let us know.
Okay. We are not going to force you to stay here.
No problem. Do you have any questions of us?
No. Just real quick, I want to make sure I have your name spelled right. Can you spell it for me?
Okay. Okay, thank you.
you spoke to County Police back on August 12th. Do you remember speaking to them?
Yes. Okay. So we are, I'm not going to go through your whole account because I know that you are, you already gave that and going to the state grand jury tomorrow, right?
Yes. I don't want to make you rehash the whole thing.
Okay. and I are with the federal prosecutor's office, we are prosecutors. So we won't have the opportunity to see you tomorrow, so that is why we listened to your recorded statement, we have read the transcript. We just have some specific questions that don't jump out at the recording because we can't see you.
Okay. That is what we want to focus on.
All right. There were certain things that you, urn, you talked about and when you talk about, you said do this or do that. Do this and do that doesn't come across in a recording and it, obviously, won't come across on this recording. But in the beginning when you saw the, the tussle in the car, can you describe for me or show me what you actually saw Michael Brown do and what the police officer were doing?
Well, actually, as I just stated to them, from my porch I can only see from the passenger side.
Okay. I don't know if he had grabbed him or what, but you could see them tussling in the car, they were moving around.
When you say he grabbed him -- I don't know who grabbed who. I know. When you say he? The police officer. Okay. Because he was walking, he must have said something to him and he was approaching the truck. Then we saw the tussling.
Let me ask you, you said he must have said something to him, you mean --
I think the officer said something to him because Michael started walking towards the truck.
Okay. That's what I was going to ask you, what made you say, when you say he, I'm trying to figure out.
I'll make sure I state it. Okay. I know when you use the expression he must have said something, that's one of those assumptions. When you say that, I want to you to explain that's why you are making that assumption.
Well, I'm assuming he said it because he was approaching the car. I mean, if the officer tells me to stop and come here, I'm coming there, okay.
Okay. I'm going to approach you, I want to talk to you. I'm going to find what is going on.
That's fine, that makes sense. But I could see them tussling, you know, and after that is when the first shot rang out.
Let me ask you about the tussling specifically. I know you said from what your vantage point was, can you describe from your vantage point what Michael Brown's position was?
He was outside the car door. Okay. Outside the truck door. He was in one of those big 4x4, not 4x4, SUVs.
Right. He was on the outside and the officer was still in the truck.
And how is Michael Brown's body?
He was like, he was, I could see the top of his head, he had a hat on.
Okay. I could see the top of his head, and then he dropped down and he disappeared for a minute. Next time I saw his head is when I heard the shot, that's when he popped up.
Okay. Okay. Were you able to see from your vantage point whether Michael Brown's body was bent over --
From my vantage point I can say clearly he was not inside that truck. He was partially, maybe his head, was right there at the officer's head.
Okay. But so for his body being in, no, I couldn't say with 100 percent accuracy that his body was, but I'm quite sure it wasn't.
Okay. So you don't know for sure?
No. What about his hands? They were inside. Okay. Uh-huh. So his hands were inside, just correct me if I say this wrong. Michael Brown hands were inside the car?
I believe so. Okay. You couldn't tell if any part of his like shoulders or anything were in it, is that fair?
No, no. No, you couldn't tell or no they weren't?
I can't tell. Okay. Can you tell, you said his head disappeared from view. So do you not know, can you tell whether any part of his head was inside the car?
No. No, it didn't or you can't tell?
No, I can't tell. Okay, fair enough. Were you able to see any movement that the police officer was making inside the car?
I could see him jerking around.
Okay. I could see his body, see his torso, I could see maybe from like the shoulders up, jostling around like they are moving back and forth like this, just like some kind of tug of war or something was going on.
Okay. Just for the recording won't pick up what you are. You are kind of leaning back and forth in your chair?
Right, they are kind of rocking back and forth, like they were in some type of struggle.
Okay. Okay. That you could clearly see that they were struggling, but I could not tell how much of his body was in the truck.
Okay. I can't say for certain how much of his body was in the truck.
That's fair. You are referring to Michael Brown?
Huh? How much of Michael Brown's body was in
How much of Michael Brown's body was in the truck?
The officer was in the truck at the time?
Officer was in the truck. When you say we, we saw, who are you referring to?
Had some other family members there on the porch with me.
Is that your brother and sister-in-law?
Yes. Was there too? Yes. Okay. And so once the shot rang out and Michael Brown started running, how soon after did the police officer get out of the car?