few days later because he was coming around and doing something on every building. And he gets out, eventually said, yeah, everybody out there talking about the poor man had his hands up in the air. He said, I didn't see that, he said, did you see that? I said, no, I didn't see that. So the young guy say, he was with him, I didn't see it either. These are the two white workers that you are talking about? Yeah, right. They were back there a few days later and talked to you personally? They didn't talk to me, just in the course of conversation they were working on our building. You were there and had that conversation? Right, right. I'm standing there, he come down there and working on the pipe. I was barbecuing, that's how the conversation started. And we got, he said, man, I'm so shook up and everything else about this and that. He said, well, it got crazy all of these guys over there, everybody running around, they're talking about the man had his hands all the way up in the air, he didn't. Did you see that? I know you saw it, didn't you? I said, yeah. He said, did you see what I see? I said, yes. He didn't have them all the way up. And we both, at the same time, same position, okay. Young guy quit after that. He said, I'm not coming out here. You said there was a lady with you during this conversation? Older lady, she didn't see the incident though. Who is she? She's the downstairs lady. Was there any other conversation within that day about this? No, uh-huh. All he had to do was connect the pipe. They had missed a connection on the pipe and then we got to talking about barbecuing, talking about, started talking about other things. He lived in Jefferson County. He said how bad it is down there, you know. Now I have to come here, stuff happens everywhere. Everywhere. You know, he said, this was crazy, you know. Did he have anything else to say about it, anything crazy about it? No, that's just the way the people reacted. Let's go back to that. You first started talking about the two white workers that were there when you first came down. Uh-huh. People were coming out and saying all kind of things. And you talked about people talking about him having his hands straight up in the air you kind of said, no, that's not what I saw. Uh-huh. Maybe I misunderstood. Did you say also that the workers were down there at the same time saying, no, we didn't see that either at that time? No, he didn't say that at that time. When I came down after the shots were fired and everything else, I came back down because the crowd was big, it grew in a split second. I walked down to the edge of my driveway and I looked over to see the building, I can see the building they are working on from my bedroom window. He was talking, as I said, he was talking to a detective because his car was parked up on the grass on my side of street. And another officer in uniform had on a blue shirt. I didn't see the insignias, but I'm just saying that because Ferguson wear that types of collar, that may be a Ferguson officer that I had not talked to that man at all that day. Okay. I did not speak to him. All right. Let's back up a little bit then. When you come down and there are people saying things that you didn't see, how quickly after those last shots were fired was that happening? I mean, where people were actual actually saying things like that? After he hit the ground, I would say it took at least about a minute. That's when the crowd starts to gather, it was like an instant? In a minute, maybe 20, 30, two, three minutes, at least be about 70 or 80, it grew. Not just the crowd, but people talking about saying things that didn't happen? Right, right. They start embellishing it when the stepfather showed up. When, I'm sorry? The stepfather. The stepfather. He's the first one that I later found out, I didn't know it was the stepfather until a few minutes later when he approached. They had started the tape up and he was trying to get to him. Oh, you know, my God, yeah, he was screaming and hollering. And the officer is trying to calm him down. And then I saw his cousin, a little girl, she has blond hair, she ran up the street. They all came from Northwinds. That's where the majority of the crowd came from. When you say they started embellishing, what did you hear? Oh, the officer ran up behind and shot him in the back. That's not true? Not true. What else? He hads his hand straight up in the air, not true. Then some guy, I don't know who the heck it was, I had never seen him before, he came out of the blue. He was coming out saying that Mike had reached in and got the gun out of his hand, not true. You mention on August 12th that after that it was everyone started coming from the back saying, oh, my God, he had his hands up in the air telling him don't shoot, don't shoot, don't shoot. And you said he never uttered a word, right? Right. Referring to Michael Brown? I said that I could hear. Right, right. Just what you saw and heard. That I could hear. And you went on to say, that's when everyone come back and all of them started saying things, oh, he was on his knees. Yeah. When he shot him, he shot him on his knees? Right. And then he came by and they said he was lying down and the officer came and shot him in the head. That was false. None of those things happened? None of those things happened, none of those things. I also want to ask you, you said early on when we were talking you saw Michael Brown earlier in the day? Uh-huh. Can you describe your interaction of what you saw? Me and the lady was sitting outside, sitting on the step. She was sitting in her chair on the lower level and he come up, instead of going through the driveway, they cut across the grass right there. When you say that was he with his friend that he was there during the incident? No, he was with some girl. I never seen her before either. And he came through and he say, how you doing, sir, how you doing, ma'am. I said, how you doing. I said, you all doing okay? Yeah. He said all right, looks like it is going to be a good day. All right. And he walked up. About what time was that. About, it was early. It was early. I don't know, probably around 8:00, somewhere after 8:00. Did you see him at all that morning. Next time I saw Michael he was laying on the ground, or the street. Have you seen that girl he was walking with, have you seen her since. I think I have. I can't say 100 percent sure. I wasn't paying too much attention to her. He was talking to me. You talking to me, I'm looking at your face. Do you know her name? No, no, I don't know. Let me ask you. I don't want to know anybody else. Let's talk about that. You talk about the things, the crowd grew and the young guys out there saying things that were not true. August 12th, you said something about this, I want to ask you about it. By living out there if you go against what they are saying, you think they might nut you up and go crazy. What do you mean by that? They had it in their mindset of what happened. They're set. They are looking for a reason to explode because they don't have anything to do. Why, why look for a reason to explode? They got nothing else to do. They are running all day, they are drinking and they're getting high all today. We see this all the time. We have been on Canfield Green apartment management to get all the drugs out of there. Okay. All the time. Northwinds got so bad they put gates up. When the gates up, the crime went up. You know, I don't trust anyone out there. They all walking around with their pants below their butts and everything else, no T-shirts on and they are so strong they will stand right there in front of you and roll that stuff up. I had to run two of them off my porch who and came and sit on my porch while and grandkids are inside, I'd been to the doctor's office. (inaudible) They are sitting on my porch, on my chairs rolling up their blunts. That's how it is. And if they strong enough to do that and they feel you are going up against them, huh-uh, never, I've got I have to protect. What would happen to somebody like that? Oh, shoot, they'll jump you, they'll jump you. Do you think that's the general feeling there if someone say something to either us or the local police, goes against what they want, that they will go against them. I think now as it is getting longer in time, the majority of them in our neighborhood, my community, want the truth. It is that outside forces that are coming in. When they burnt that thing down yesterday, 80 percent of the people were from the city, not from there. Cars were coming in, the parking lots were full. That lets us know immediately this is not Canfield, this is not Ferguson. You mention the burning down issue, the memorial? Yes. Did you see that? Oh, yes. What did you see? I was standing outside in the morning, I come out every morning, step out, try to smoke a cigarette outside. I stepped outside, there was a gray car and a red car, I mean, a white and black car, sorry, sitting there. A gray, dark gray, charcoal gray car pulled up there, now there's three of them. The first two, they were taking pictures. In fact, a girl was in the white car, she got out and stood on the driver's side, took a couple pictures, got in. And I saw those two drive off. The charcoal gray car pulled up beside it. I said, oh, I forgot my cigarette butt, I left it on the kitchen counter. So I walked in, I got it, I came back out, I left and I walked to the other side of the porch, just look around, I like to look around, see the cars and see who is out and everything else. By the time I reach my door step, my front door, he gunned it or she gunned it or they gunned it and the car peeled off. Next thing I know, whoosh. It shot up? It just blew up and there wasn't no slow flame, it just whoosh. You talking about the memorial? Yes. Did you see anybody go other and do anything? I didn't see anybody. They could have done anything from the car window. They could have threw something out of the window. But that was definitely to me an accelerant because the way the fire went up, it just went whoosh. It wasn't a slow burn. I mean, they talking about a candle, candle, most of that stuff was wet. Okay. Most of it was wet. All right. We are going to leave this running. I'll talk to myself. Okay.