The transcripts of the Grand Jury testimonies about the shooting of unarmed teenager Michael Brown by Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson.

  • Good morning. Today's date is September 3rd, 2014 and it is about, I can't see my watch, a little before 9:00, 9:55. (sic) This is Kathy Alizadeh with the Prosecutor's Office and also present in the room are the 12 jurors and Sheila Whirley with the Prosecutor's Office and the court reporter who is taking down everything that's being said at this point.

    Just some preliminary things. First of all, did everybody get in okay, was there any confusion, you all got in okay?

    Well, did give you menus for today?

    (All jurors indicate yes.)

  • What I would like to at least begin explaining, and we talked to you about when you want to meet in the future. And we are going to accommodate you whatever time or date you would like to meet. Whatever you decide, if you want to meet, to continue to meet on Wednesdays because that's what you're used to, we will make this room available for you on Wednesdays, okay. We'll do something else with the new grand jury, they'll meet elsewhere.

    So I would suggest that possibly over the lunch break today maybe talk amongst yourselves. During your lunch break it is not going to be recorded, you all can talk about amongst yourselves about future days.

    And then maybe at the end of the day today or after the lunch, we are going to need a list of some dates. Those dates are not going to be made public, we're never going to discuss on the record in advance what dates, you know, you're going to be meeting, but we'll need to know so we can start scheduling people.

    Keep in mind that unlike typical grand jury days, we cannot present evidence on this matter unless all 12 of you are present.

    I know you all have the phone number for the grand jury. If you all make arrangements to meet on a particular day and then, you know, somebody gets up in the morning and they're sick, they've got the flu, you're going to need to call as soon as possible so we can try to call people and head them off if they haven't already left their homes if one of you can't make it, then we're not going to be able to hear anything that day, okay?

    So the alternates, alternates will not be called in on this, is that my understanding?

  • That's correct, they're not going to have heard everything that you would have heard.


  • Typically the grand jury will hear a whole case in a matter of 15 minutes maybe, but that's not the case here, so there won't be any alternates that are going to be seated.

    All right.

  • So the way I would like to progress is that each day when we meet, we're going to try to be on time and start on time. I think that's respectful of everybody else. We know you are dedicating a lot of your time to do this, so we'll try to be more punctual on future dates.

    I also want to tell you as you notice we have some additional equipment in this room, there is probably more people in this room than ever before. I'm probably going to bring in some additional fans because it will heat up and get warm in this room.

    If anybody at any point feels like they're feeling, you know, a little overheated, please let me know because we'll take a break. With this door open when I walk out here it is way cooler out here than it is in here. If ever you feel like you're, you know, not being able to be attentive because of the heat, stop us, okay.

    And what I would also like to do is every, the beginning of every time you meet is to give you an overview of what to expect for that day. This is not in the form of like an opening statement where I'm going to talk about what the evidence is going to be, I'm just going to give you the names of the witnesses that we expect to call and who they are and what we anticipate the content of the topic they're testifying about.

    As you have seen in the past, the witness will take the stand, be sworn, take the stand and then I will begin or Sheila will begin by asking the witness questions.

    And I'm not trying to say, I don't want to discourage anybody from asking any question that they want to ask, but what I would like to see if possible, because your questions might be answered later on in the testimony. Some of these witnesses are going to have lengthy testimony and at some point, you know, you might ask a question that I'll say he's going to talk about that in a minute.

    If you don't understand something that's being said at the time, raise your hand, identify yourself by your juror number and say excuse me, I'm not understanding what you're saying right now. But if you have a question that he hasn't, the witness hasn't seemed to answer yet, if you want to jot that down in your notes then, you know, at the end, of course, you know, I will open it up to questions and Sheila may have additional questions or vice versa because we are taking turns on putting on different witnesses because one person can't do all of this.

    Are there any questions so far? There will be times when I'm going to hand out things to you like maps or reports of other people just so you can have them for your reference while you're hearing the testimony. I would encourage you to still pay attention to the testimony.

    It can be distracting if you are reading something that's in front of you while a witness is testifying, you are going to be missing something that's being said on the stand. Anything that we give you will be available to you at any time during the time you're sitting. Certainly for your deliberations if you wish to have items back that you've seen before, we'll get those to you.

    When you do get maps or reports or anything of that nature, what I would like you to do is to just write your juror number on the corner of it, but I don't want you to put any other writing on it.

    If you have notes you want to take, put them in your notebook because as we've explained to you your notebooks are going to be private, they're locked up, nobody is looking at them and they will be destroyed at the end of the process here. I don't want you making notes on anything that is, you know, not your notebooks, okay. Can we agree with that?

    After our last session Sheila and I sat down and listened to some parts of the testimony, the mikes pick up very well. Remember last time I said I wasn't sure how that was going to go? So I was kind of encouraging people to lean forward. I think we're not going to have any problem as long as people keep their voices up, we should be able to hear everybody that wants to speak.

    And if at all, you know, you cannot hear a witness as usual, you know, you need to raise your hand, I can't hear you or I didn't hear what you said.

    Any questions about that so far? Sheila, one other thing I forgot. So the next time we meet, we will need for you to be on time because Judge who is the grand jury judge, is going to be here before we start that day and she's going to read to you another charge. When I say charge, it is like she's charging you with an oath, I guess.

    That is having to do with the fact that you're session is being extended. So I told her, you know, what time I thought we wanted to get started. You know she's going to be here a little before that. So if we can make sure that everybody is here on time so, you know, she doesn't have to wait around for us.

  • What time we talking, 8:00 or 8:30.

  • I think we were talking about 8:30.

  • You all can be here by 8:30?

  • You actually prefer 8:30?

  • Okay. Because 8:00 worked well. I think they prefer 8:00 to bring them in the way they did today, they prefer 8:00.

  • So what time do you all think you can be here and seated for Judge

    (All indicate 8:00.)

  • I will tell her to be here at 8:00 for the next time you meet.

    You have a question?

    I know she spoke a lot about secrecy and we all take that very seriously.

  • I don't know the answer to that question. I do know what that is, so I will have to check with our people and see what they say about that.


  • I can't imagine there would be a problem with that.

  • I didn't hear over here, I'm sorry.

  • You want to go ahead and restate it?

  • Because of what we are going to be doing.

  • Okay, I didn't hear you.

  • As we mentioned before, people in your lives know you are on a grand jury and have been. Of course, we're not going to disclose to any media outlet or the public in general your identities, but your families and your employers know that you are on the grand jury.

    But more importantly, what you are charged with is that you cannot discuss anything that you hear in here. So, you know, if you have conversations with your family or your employers about, you know, your meeting times and your meeting dates, how long this is going to take, that's up to you and I understand that that's something that you all need to work out with the people in your lives.

    We would like to get this done as quickly as possible, but then again, we are not going to rush anything.

    If there is a need to meet until after the first of the year, that's what we are going to do. I don't anticipate that, but there is no way after this whole process is over that anybody is going to say we rushed anything, okay. I want you to have as much time as you need, hear as much evidence as you think you need to hear. If we don't call somebody that you want to hear from, we'll get them here, okay.

    So for the next meeting we'll start at 8:00, the Judge will give you a charge. Today we're going to have testimony on the investigation into the shooting of Michael Brown in the morning session, hopefully we can get done by lunch time. In the afternoon today you are going to hear a regular docket of cases that we need to move through the grand jury.

    After that, we anticipate that all of your, everything you will hear every time you sit will just be evidence on the investigation into the shooting of Michael Brown.

    I know this is different than other cases because normally when we've charged somebody with an offense, you have the charge in front of you, you can read what the charge is, you can read what maybe the elements are and you don't have that in this case.

    I understand that that kind of leaves you not sure how you are supposed to look at this evidence.

    So after this morning session, Sheila and I will sit down and we will come up with statutes for you on the various degrees of homicide and there will be some other relevant statutes on the use of lethal or deadly force when, and possibly self-defense statutes, so you will have by the time you are here next time. We'll have that for you so you can kind of at least understand the law as you are hearing this evidence.

    We're putting on witnesses in a certain order because we're trying to make this easier for you to digest and understand the evidence as it comes in because unlike a trial, I'm not making an opening statement. I can't outline for you what all the evidence is. In a trial, you know, a jury gets to hear that, that's not going to happen here because I'm not making an opening statement.

    So we're trying to put the evidence on in a more logical order so you can kind of understand as the witnesses progress, oh yeah, I remember hearing about that the other day. Urn, but as it happens, sometimes we have scheduling issues with witnesses, and sometimes things might be out of order.

    There might be an occasion where you hear testimony from a witness and then you say to me or Sheila, well, you know, what about that, was that found at the scene? Well, you're just, I can't answer those kind of questions for you, you're just going to have to hope you are going to hear evidence about that and at the conclusion of all of this, if you have additional questions and you give us those questions, we will see if we can get those answered through witness testimony, okay.

    I think the best thing for every day is for us to tell you how your day is going to go. So today you are going to hear from two witnesses. The first witness is St. Louis County Detective, Detective He is a crime scene investigator. He will testify about what he did in relation to his investigation into the incident that occurred involving the shooting of Michael Brown, okay.

    We're going to see pictures, and some of them are going to be graphic and disturbing and I have to just get that out there in the beginning.

    The next witness we're going to hear from is going to be I will have him spell that for you. I don't want to misspell it.

    He is the medical examiner who conducted the autopsy on the body of Michael Brown and he's going to describe his job and what his findings were, okay.

    So with that, are we ready to get started?

    Now, on the times for next week, we want to be in the garage at 8:00 so we can be here at 8:30, or we want to be at the room at 8:00?

  • I think you want to be in the garage at 8:00, that way you can come through the way you did. That seemed to work very well according to So be at the garage at 8:00, unless you hear differently. I will call you if something changes, but 8:00 in the garage. That will probably put us at 8:30, ready for Judge

  • And that's kind of what I told her earlier this week, 8:30, I thought.

    From a frequency or time allotment standpoint for future weeks, what is your anticipation from a need, eight hours per week, two days per week if we can do it, how do we balance with what you have available to present to us.

  • That's going to depend a lot on your schedule. Sheila and I have talked about this. It would be great if we could go five days a week for as long as it takes to get this done. As I said to Sheila yesterday, we're not going to be able to do that.

    In a typical case we have a year to prepare to put on evidence and we don't have that here. And so, and as you may, you know, find out as the testimony comes in, we may have additional witnesses that we don't even know about today that we will have to, you know, present evidence on.

    So that's going to be up to you. If you guys decide well, we'd like to meet for, you know, an afternoon on a certain day of the week and all day on Saturday, you know, or we'd like to meet two evenings during the week, whatever you all think is best. Understanding that the more often we meet, the quicker this will go, but I don't think it is realistic for either side, our side as well as your side to think that we're going to have, be able to put this case on Monday through Friday until we get done. I just don't think we could do it.

    All right, you can talk about that during lunch what everybody kind of feels comfortable with as far as a schedule, okay.

    As far as my job, I know my session is to end next Wednesday, so will we get a letter stating the fact that it has been extended?

  • We can provide that for you.

  • will take care of that.

    Thank you. of lawful age, having been first duly sworn to testify the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth in the case aforesaid, deposes and says in reply to oral interrogatories, propounded as follows, to-wit:


  • Can you state your name and spell it, please?

  • Good morning everybody. My name is

  • And where are you employed?

  • I am a crime scene detective with St. Louis County Police.

  • Are you a police officer?

  • And can you briefly describe for the jurors what training you went through to become a police officer?

  • After receiving a bachelor's degree, you attend the police academy. You start as a police officer like everyone does on the street in a patrol car. After different various assignments and training and interviews, I was accepted into the crime scene unit about five years ago. Once in the crime scene unit, here again, subjected to another 10 to 12 weeks of field training and ongoing classes and training after that.

  • What does a crime scene investigator, what is your job, what do you do?

  • Primarily our number one job is evidence at various crime scenes that we are requested to, photographing evidence, collecting evidence, diagramming scenes, videotaping various scenes.

  • And so you say that you have been a crime scene investigator now for approximately five years?

  • Yes, ma'am. I was assigned to this unit in January of 2009.

  • And during the time you have been a crime scene investigator, have you also received any additional training either through course work or attending conferences or seminars that are particularly directed toward crime scene investigations?

  • Yes, ma'am. Everything from interviewing interrogation techniques, to scene photography, setting up death cases, forensic anthropology courses, several things.

  • So as a general rule, before we get into the particulars of this investigation, it is fair to say that you have to be called to a crime scene by other police departments or agencies; is that correct?

  • So you're not driving around in a van looking for crime scenes?

  • So you have a van that you use?

  • And it has all kinds of things in there that you use during your investigation; is that right?

  • Equipment, tools, supplies, those sorts of things.

  • And so when you are called, are you on-call, like you could be called in at any time?

  • There are 17 of us in the unit and we work, we cover 24 hour shifts. So at any given time there is a minimum of two of us St. Louis County crime scene detectives on duty, 24 hours a day.

  • When you receive a call to go to a crime scene, you get your stuff, go, and you drive your van to the crime scene; is that right?

  • Now, typically when you arrive at a crime scene, what's the first thing you do?

  • First thing I would do is contact either the person in charge of the scene or an officer that knows what's going on. They would typically give me a rundown what they know at that time and walk me through the scene to show me, again, what they know, what occurred and where it occurred.

  • And so it's, you are not the first officer arriving at a crime scene, other officers are always there before you; is that right?

  • Correct, yes, ma'am.

  • And so you talk with them about what they know, what they might have already found, correct?

  • Okay. Urn, and so after you get that information, is that necessary for you to then decide what you are going to document, what you are going to search for and so forth?

  • Yes, it helps greatly knowing what they know and then I can take my time and start digging further into finding evidence and stuff like that. But knowing what they know prior to my arrival helps me establish a starting point for my investigation.

  • And I would imagine every crime scene is going to be unique, correct?

  • And whether it is a shooting or a burglary or sexual assault, those are all different crime scenes, correct?

  • So after you have spoken with the officers there and gotten some information, what's the next thing you typically do?

  • I would walk through the scene with them, they typically would point out evidence that they've already found or stuff that may have obvious to them, stuff that other witnesses or victims may have shown them already. From that point, for homicide scenes and other death investigation scenes, the first thing that we would do is videotape a walk-through from my own perspective. Not with anyone narrating it or with anyone particularly in front of the camera, it would typically be just my point of view walking through the scene from what I know from that initial contact with the officer.

  • And in these cases given that other officers are already there before you, is it usual that whatever they have determined the scene to be has been taped off with police tape, that yellow tape that keeps people out of the scene?

  • Yes, ma'am, generally that's the case. Oftentimes through the course of an investigation we may find something, obviously, that's outside the crime scene tape initially, but typically the crime scene tape is already up, a scene has been established for us and then we start our investigation.

  • And I would imagine that, you know, what you were hoping for is to have a crime scene that is undisturbed, uncontaminated by anyone from the outside who is not involved in the incident itself, would that be fair to say?

  • In an ideal world, yes, that would be perfect.

  • Does it occur that there is contamination of a scene either because of police officers being there, other pedestrians being there, emergency personnel, first responders being there?

  • Yes, absolutely, that's one of the tenets of crime scene work. That's a theory that anyone or any person that comes in contact with a crime scene you can either take something away, but you will always leave something there, be it footprint, steps, anything.

  • And so after you have done your video walk-through then, what's the next thing that you do?

  • The next thing we do is after we capture video, we take overall scene photographs. And again, it is photographs from my perspective of what is in place when I show up.

    If there is a police car that's shown up or crime scene tape, everything is left in place from when I get there and I take my overall photographs from what is in place when I get there. There is no way I can photograph stuff that happened before I get there or try to guess what it looked like before, so the photographs that I take from the crime scene are actually what I see when I show up.

  • So it would be against protocol to try to rearrange things so that they were the way somebody thought they were before you arrived?

  • Yes, ma'am, correct.

  • So nobody touches anything once you get there and you then go through it, photograph everything as you see it; is that right?

  • And then after you have completed photographing a scene, what do you do next?

  • Once we do the overall photos, we would typically walk through and place down our number of placards to mark the known piece of evidence that we have recognized or determined at that point.

    After that, we'll start photographing those pieces of evidence individually and then once those things are documented, we'll then start moving things, looking for more pieces of evidence. We always want to be able to show stuff that was in place, how you would normally just walk in and see, there is always going to be hidden pieces of evidence that we need to move, either a car, you know, a couch, move cushions on stuff and start looking for additional pieces of evidence.

    And then we just restart the same process. Photographing it where we found it, putting a placard in place where we found it and then collecting it.

  • And then when you collect evidence after you photograph that evidence, you referenced a placard, is that, explain for the jurors what a placard is?

  • A placard, I'm sure you have all seen them, they come in various shapes and colors. There is typically a hard plastic, for lack of a better term, with a number on it. And the only purpose that it truly serves is for primarily me to recognize a photograph, what number of evidence that I'm picking up.

    Any given scene shell casing or a blood drop somewhere. If you find a picture of this shell casing 100 pictures later of a separate shell casing, it would be nearly impossible for you to determine which was number one and which was number 200.

    So a numbered placard is just a reference for my report writing and my evidence collection of what I've just took a picture of and I can reference that in my evidence.

  • So after you have placed your placard and photograph the evidence items with their placards, you begin collecting pieces of evidence, correct?

  • And you always have with you in your van envelopes, plastic bags, swabs, all kind of things that you might need in order to properly package pieces of evidence?

  • And you do that personally yourself?

  • I do. Typically in larger scenes there is always two of us there. One is keeping notes, one is getting the piece of equipment for someone else. We are working together doing that, but yes, we all do pick up our own evidence and place it in individual bags and envelopes.

  • So if it is a particularly large scene, it is more than one crime scene detective present at the scene. Is there one of you that takes over that that is your scene?

  • Correct, yes, ma'am.

  • And so the other detectives that are there are assisting you?

  • So when you package evidence, do you mark the packages or envelopes or bags with your own handwriting and your notes denoting what it is inside and where?

  • As far as the labeling on front of the various different envelopes that we have. One person may write that. The one thing if it is your case, in particular the Ferguson case was mine, some envelopes I filled out the front information, but on every envelope we seal it with a piece of evidence tape so it is closed and that is my initials and DSN on the back of every evidence seal.

  • Each individual piece of evidence would be packaged separately, is that protocol?

  • So after you have filled out the evidence envelope and sealed it with tape and placed your initials and DSN on the envelope, do you prepare an evidence sheet?

  • Every piece of evidence has a paper trail, it has a receipt that denotes not only what the evidence item is, where it was found, but it also goes to a different part of our crime lab and/or property control. Our crime lab has three or four different wings to it, be it firearms lab, the chemistry lab, the DNA lab, any piece of evidence that goes to any part of those labs has to have its own individual receipt.

  • So this receipt that is with this packaged evidence stays with that item; is that right?

  • Yes, not only is the evidence receipt, but also serves as the chain of custody but everyone that picks that item up has to sign off on it as the chain of custody.

  • And it is not unusual for items that you may have collected to go through a number of different hands to get to its final destination, whether it be the lab, whether it be the fingerprint section, whether it be the medical examiner's office and so forth, several people may have handled this package, is that fair to say?

  • And those people have to sign off on that package?

  • And then when they give it to somebody else, they have to sign that they gave it, and the person they gave it to then signs?

  • And until the evidence reaches a destination where it is going to be examined or tested, does anyone open that package while they're handling it?

  • Would you agree that it is the general policy of whether it is the St. Louis County Crime Lab or any other place, that if they were eventually to receive one of your evidence envelopes and the envelope tape has been torn or tampered with or in any way changed from when you initially sealed that envelope, do they notify you?

  • Typically. For instance, if I, when I package a piece of evidence, I would put it into our vault, especially if it is overnight. Typically these things happen at night or when the crime lab is closed. Whoever takes that piece of evidence out of the vault or in the lab, they are going to open it.

    So they will cut my evidence tape. When they're done with it and seal it back up, they put a piece tape over top of it.

  • Let me stop you, you are talking about a vault that's at the lab?

  • So that's after the evidence has arrived at the lab?

  • But the people that may handle it before it gets to the lab aren't to open that evidence, correct?

  • No, typically I would be the only person that would handle that before it gets to the lab.

  • Okay. So once it is at the lab and you said sometimes if it is overnight, they have an overnight vault?

  • You can drop evidence in?

  • And so you know no one else from the outside except the lab people are going to be able to get to that?

  • Actually, myself, not myself, but crime scene detectives and our property control director are the only people that have access to it.

  • So once the lab people come in, they have one of you guys have to open the vault for them to get the evidence out?

  • And then, of course, if they have to examine it for whatever testing or examination they are going to do, that's when the first time this evidence envelope is opened?

  • Yes. If at any time there is a problem with the receipt, be it if you missed a signature on a receipt or if you have 30 envelopes of evidence and one of them does not have the seal on it, you'll get a call, a page, an email, they won't touch anything until you respond back down there to fix it before they will accept it as evidence.

  • So the lab is charged with the duty of checking the chain of custody making sure that is all copesetic?

  • Making sure the envelope is sealed and has not been tampered with?

  • And then after you have delivered your evidence items to wherever they're going to go, the lab, property control, and property control for the sake of explaining to the jurors, what is property control?

  • Property control, obviously, the name explains a lot, they control the property. But they primarily take pieces of evidence that are not going to be tested by the forensic lab and fingerprints for that matter.

    If it is a recovered stolen bicycle from the back of someone's yard, that's not going to go to our lab for DNA testing, that's going to sit in property.

  • It is what we would think of as an evidence room?

  • Exactly, yes.

  • So after you have delivered the items of evidence to wherever you are going to send them to and let me ask you this, at some point there is another officer who is in charge of the investigation, would that be fair to say?

  • And do you also take instruction from that officer on various parts of what you're doing?

  • I'm assuming you are referring to like a detective that's doing the lead part of the investigation.

  • They are oftentimes given more information, especially throughout the course of an investigation than what we would typically have at the scene. They are initially outside interviewing witnesses and other people, be it even a suspect and/or victim.

    At times what they will do because I'm given basic information when I show up to the scene, I'm typically not privy to the ongoing active investigation.

    So other detectives, be it homicide detectives or anybody else would come into the scene and go hey, we just found out this. Can you look for this.

    And then I may have a piece of evidence that I already collected that I deemed important to the case, or I assumed it might have something to do with it, and I would think to send it to the DNA lab.

    Well, they may find out something and say can you go ahead and send that to firearms first before it goes to DNA, can you send this to fingerprints before going to DNA or vice versa.

    So they come in and ask certain things or ask that things be sent or certain things be collected that I may not have known about initially.

  • So, for example, while you are on the scene, a detective may come up and say, hey, the guy just told us he threw the knife in the sewer, now he is going to cause you to go look in the sewer to see if you can find the knife?

  • After you delivered all your items of evidence, then do you make a report?

  • And your report is documenting what, everything you have done at the crime scene; is that correct?

  • My reports are not narrative filled, like typically police report it is basically an inventory list. It is three sections or sometimes four, depending on what I do at different scenes. The first section is an inventory of the photographs that I took and what they show.

    The second section if I took latent fingerprints or developed prints, I would list where I found each print, the third section is just a list of the evidence I collected and where it was collected, what the evidence item is and where it was collected and the fourth list, the fourth section would be if I took video or did diagrams of the scene, which is me listing those things as pieces of evidence.

  • Okay. And so lets get to the investigation that occurred at the scene of the shooting of Michael Brown. And so you were on duty on August 9th of 2014; is that right?

  • And about what time did you receive a call that you were needed to respond to the scene?

  • Shortly after 1:00 p.m.

  • And where were you when you got that call?

  • I was actually northbound on I-270 around Highway 40.

  • So how long did you go directly to the scene?

  • Urn, I switched my radio over to the muni north radio, which dispatches for the Ferguson area, not for Ferguson, but for the munis in that area. And I heard several reports of gunshots being fired near the crime scene, so I stopped and put my vest on.

  • Okay. What was the call involved in the shooting, what information were you given when you first got the call?

  • I was told that it was an officer involved shooting with a Ferguson officer and Ferguson had requested St. Louis County Crime Scene to respond.

  • So this incident happened within the city limits of the municipality of Ferguson, correct?

  • And typically that would not be a jurisdiction that you would investigate in, they would have their own police department, correct?

  • They do. They handle burglaries and stuff like that. We typically do not go in there for property crimes.

  • But in this case being an officer involved shooting, was it unusual for a municipality to reach out to the County and ask for their assistance or ask them to take over the investigation?

  • No, ma'am. We handle those type of calls for any municipality that ask. We also handle those calls for any department that uses the Major Case Squad.

  • So when you said that you, on your way, heard on the municipal radio channels that there were shots fired, are you talking about shots that were being fired after the officer involved shooting occurred?

  • So that caused you to decide to stop and put on your Kevlar vest?

  • Yes, ma'am. I stopped almost immediately, once I got it put on, I drove directly to the scene.

  • And so what was the location of the scene?

  • I was given the address Canfield.

  • So how is it that from where you were driving you eventually travel onto West Florissant; is that correct?

  • Yes, that's the round I took.

  • And then from West Florissant you turn onto what street to get?

  • You can turn directly onto Canfield and West Florissant.

  • So from West Florissant when you turn into Canfield, that's a residential area, isn't it?

  • And after you travel some distance, not terribly far, you reach an apartment complex, correct?

  • What's the name of that apartment complex?

  • I honestly can't tell you. I would just assume it was the name Canfield apartment complex.

  • So when you arrived, turned onto Canfield, did you notice a crowd?

  • Immediately. The distance from West Florissant to the scene, if I can recollect, is probably less than half a mile. And it is a residential street, all the houses have driveways, I have been on that street before. There is typically not a bunch of cars parked on the side streets and stuff like that, but as soon as I turned onto Canfield, I encountered traffic basically at a standstill.

    There was some officers that were directing traffic near the first cross street because people were pulling in, being told they can't drive through, trying to turn around and it was a little bit of a mess when I showed up.

  • Were there also a number of first responders there?

  • Police cars?

  • Ambulances or were they already gone?

  • I can't testify to that. I don't remember if they were there or not. I know there were several police cars and hundreds of pedestrians.

  • Hundreds of pedestrians outside of the police?

  • This is in the middle of day, correct?

  • Daylight hours?

  • Was it raining?

  • Sunny, nice weather.

  • So after you made your way through that initial crowd, did you arrive at an area that was taped off and you determined to be the scene of the crime?

  • And so, what is it that you first did when you arrived?

  • I first sought out whoever it was in charge. I saw some other officers and sergeants from my own department and I obviously made my way over to a group of people that were talking. They were expecting me and I just asked, simply asked can you tell me what's going on.

  • What information, when you say a group of people, you talking about police officers?

  • You didn't talk to any witnesses?

  • Or anybody in the crowd?

  • And so what did the officers tell you?

  • They told me that they had an officer involved shooting. They were pretty brief with me initially stating that the officers car is down there and at the other end of the street is the victim.

  • When you, now, the initial call that came out for this, do you recall was this, how is this determined initially?

  • I was told officer involved shooting, that would be the typical term they would use when talking to me on the phone.

  • Now, several of the items that you have packaged and also marked, you write or have indicated assault on LEO?

  • What does that mean?

  • At my point in the investigation it is obviously right when everything starts and charges, determinations, names assigned to things aren't necessarily set in stone. So during my initial investigation, we are investigating an assault on a law enforcement officer.

  • Were you told when you initially arrived at the scene that there was some type of altercation involving an officer and the deceased?

  • And was that described as an assault?

  • So when you began this investigation, you were characterizing this as an assault of a law enforcement officer, correct?

  • Is that in any way meant to be your opinion of what happened or who was a victim in this case?

  • No, ma'am. Any time I'm involved in an officer involved shooting, be it a fatal one or nonfatal, it is always during my initial investigation listed as an assault on law enforcement.

  • And so on various evidence items that you package on these sheets, you list a victim name?

  • And when you began this investigation, who was your victim name on these packages?

  • Officer Wilson.

  • That would be the Ferguson officer?

  • Again, is that in any way supposed to be some kind of comment on whether you think who was the victim of this incident?

  • No, ma'am. That's how, when we list assault on law enforcement, he was the victim of the assault that we were initially investigating.

  • Okay. So did you immediately learn the identity of the deceased?

  • We had a preliminary ID. There was no form of positive investigation when I started my investigation.

  • Okay. And so after having talked to the officers about what happened, what's the first thing you did in this case?

  • One of the sergeants with Ferguson give me a brief walk-through to start my investigation so I can have a logical starting point from where I would start my video, photographs and looking for evidence.

  • So eventually you did a diagram of the crime scene is that correct?

  • Yes, ma'am that's the last thing we do before we leave.

  • So given that it is the last thing, but I'm going to use it initially as one of my first things to help the jurors understand what is going on, but as I turn off of, as you enter the apartment complex and at the point where the crime scene is, Canfield is basically a straight street, correct?

  • Yes, ma'am. Where this entire scene occurred is a straight stretch of road.

  • And is it a paved road?

  • Is it marked with any paint or lane parkers?

  • It has a center lane marker, yes.

  • And is that a double yellow line?

  • And is this a street where there's a single lane of traffic that proceeds in opposite directions?

  • And Canfield is a street that goes east and west?

  • Yes, at that point.

  • Okay. It is a curvy street?

  • But at the point where your crime scene was, it is straight and it pretty much is an east to west street?

  • And when you started your walk-through with the Ferguson officer, did he direct your attention to Officer Wilson's vehicle?

  • And where, in relation to the deceased body, was the vehicle, was it

  • The west end of the crime scene.

  • Okay. And then further east down Canfield then was the deceased?

  • And so when you began your walk-through, did you start on, what end of this crime scene did you start at?

  • Everyone that I spoke with, the Ferguson officers and my own department, we were on the east end of the crime scene near the victim or the deceased as it were.

  • Yeah, because I don't want to get confused using the term victim because some of your things are

  • Yes, ma'am, they are.

  • Marked victim is Officer Wilson. So let's talk about deceased or Michael Brown in that term.

  • And then any officer, the Ferguson officer by his name, okay?

  • If everybody doesn't know as of yet, the officer that was identified to you as being involved in this shooting was Darren Wilson; is that correct?

  • So the vehicle was on the west end of the crime scene, Michael Brown's body was on the east end of the crime scene?

  • So when you began your initial walk-through, you started where the body was?

  • Are you videotaping at this point?

  • When you are doing the walk-through then, did you notice that there were already items of apparent evidence or things of interest that had already been marked?

  • Yes, ma'am. There are a lot of times classes that are offered at their own police academy, basically road officers responding to homicide scenes.

    It is not only training, a lot of times kind of fall backs on common sense. If there is something, be it a shell casing or piece of clothing that you know is part of evidence or evidentiary value, most anyone will typically mark that, be it with a piece of crime scene tape or traffic cones, they will set stuff near items just so one, it is marked and they know where it is at. Two, so someone doesn't accidently step on it or kick it or move it.

  • So did you notice that there were a number of traffic cones that were already in this scene?

  • Yes, as part of the walk-through they would say that cone over there is marking what we think is a projectile or that traffic cone is marking a shell casing and they would just point things out to me as we were walking through.

  • All right. And so after you did this walk-through, did you walk the length of the crime scene going then west and then returning east to where the deceased was?

  • And also, just for the record, the street of Canfield at this point, are there sidewalks on either side of the street?

  • And there are apartment buildings, this is a complex that has a number of apartment buildings, correct?

  • And the apartment buildings have parking lots?

  • And there is entrances to the parking lots, there are streets that are coming off of Canfield, correct?

  • So after you did your walk-through, what's the next thing you did?

  • Urn, typically at that point we would go back, my van was parked on the west end of the crime scene just west of where Darren Wilson's vehicle was at. We would go back there, I would prepare my video camera, you know, get a new memory card put in, write some notes down and at that point typically start my video walk-through of the scene.

  • Is that what you did in this case?

  • As far as the exact times, I couldn't tell you, but during this time when we were heading back to my car, another round of gunshots were fired and extremely close proximity to the crime scene. There was obviously a large crowd reacting to that as well as a police reaction to it.

    And the decision was made almost immediately to kind of hold, make sure that our crime scene is secured. I have to be able to concentrate what I'm looking at and trying to collect, versus trying to watch the crowd behind me that's growing ever bigger and more angry by the minute.

  • And so there was a break in your investigation until you were comfortable that the crime scene was secured; is that right?

  • Is anyone else processing the crime scene or do anything else or touching in the crime scene while you take that break?

  • No, ma'am. All the manpower there was utilized to try to secure the crime, just secure the perimeter of the crime scene. We had officers 10 feet apart, 5 feet apart every inch of the crime scene tape trying to keep people out of it.

  • These were county officers, were there Ferguson officers?

  • County officers, Ferguson officers, I guarantee you there were other neighboring municipality officers that were there.

  • Approximately if you had to guess, how many police officers were on the scene?

  • Is that unusual in your experience?

  • Very unusual.

  • Had you ever had a scene like this before?

  • And so after this break until you were comfortable about the crime scene was secure, did you begin your video walk-through?

  • And so are you the one who operates the camera?

  • And do you shoot the video continuously during your walk-through or do you stop it at certain points?

  • Once I start the actual scene video, I do continue one continuous video.

  • Did you do that in this case?

  • Now, you mentioned that typically as you are going, is there audio on the video?

  • You are not narrating anything?

  • And so you can hear things in the background, but you're not speaking on the video?

  • Any other officers that are narrating what's going on?

  • And so after you did this video walk-through, again, where did you start the video walk-through?

  • I believe if you want to look at the picture of the crime scene as a rectangle, I started at the southwest corner, moved east to northeast to northwest in a counter clockwise motion.

  • Okay. I'm going to hand you what we have marked, and I want to make something clear on the record, I believe the last time we met there was one item that was marked as an evidentiary item, it was a report for that witness. Just because to make it clear, that was, I think, marked State's Exhibit 1, which is typically what we do in cases. But because this is a grand jury exhibit, we're going to use different, call it something different.

    So we will at some point re-mark that report, which was State's Exhibit 1 and that will be Grand Jury Exhibit 1. Okay, it is State's Exhibit, it has the typical red sticker that has State's Exhibit, but it will say GJ 1. We are going to mark all of ours GJ and then a sequential number.

    So I'm going to hand you what I have marked as GJ 2.

    (Grand Jury Exhibit 2 marked for identification.)

  • (By Ms. Alizadeh) That's a two page document. Do you recognize that?

  • Is that your diagram of the crime scene?

  • And that's the top page, correct?

  • And then the second page, what is that? A measurement details and starting points and measurements.

  • Okay. And does this represent the crime scene that you diagrammed on that day?

  • As I'm not offering a piece of evidence like I would in trial, I'm just going to put it up here for your benefit. And I'm going to have to move this for a second. I'm also at this time going to pass out copies of this diagram and the legend that's attached to it. And as I said, if you would just put your on it somewhere in the corner and try to avoid making any marks on it or notes.

    These numbers, these things are kind of tiny, it might help if you can look at your own version, your own copy.

    Can you see okay from where you are sitting?

  • I cannot see the left-hand side of it.

  • Okay. If you would bring your chair, maybe sit next to here. I don't want you to block the view, I'm going to get out of the way too once I get this situated.

    As best I can show that, can everybody see it? I'm going to move out of the way.

    So I put GJ 2 up on a projector so it is displayed on the wall. I have a laser pointer and so do you, Detective

  • Can you describe, this is the street you are talking about Canfield, correct?

  • And we see a directional arrow at the corner at the top right?

  • Yes, indicating north.

  • Okay. And so if you were to drive in this direction, you are going west?

  • Toward West Florissant?

  • As you drive in this direction, you are driving east, deeper into the apartment complex?

  • And it eventually comes out and goes?

  • A subdivision, I think it goes into another apartment complex and then into a subdivision.

  • Okay. And so when you arrived, you have listed or diagrammed here what is a vehicle?

  • Yes, that is Darren Wilson's police car.

  • And then you also diagrammed what appears to be a body?

  • Yes, that is Michael Brown's body.

  • And then these boxes that are here that have numbers, it says Canfield?

  • Those are the two apartment buildings that we used as reference points for areas that we collected items of evidence. I can note out the addresses on here, I have it listed and from west to east. They are actually descending, so both of these buildings, while they are one building, it contains two addresses.

    So the first address, this side off the left hand or west end would be , the east end would be So it is descending from west to east.

  • Okay. So now what is this object here that you've drawn?

  • This is an entrance to a parking lot and this is actually kind of a grassy hill.

  • So a vehicle could pull into this area here and enter a parking lot?

  • And then what about this right here?

  • Same thing, this is a, this is an entrance to a parking lot for this building, this is an entrance to the parking lot for this building, and this right here is another entrance to a parking lot for a building.

  • So where you've got an arrow points to Copper Creek Court, that is a driveway that enters a parking area?

  • That residents would park?

  • And so when you are beginning to process your crime scene, you start, do you start by taking measurements?

  • No, measurements are the last thing that we do.

  • Okay. And so in this particular case after you completed the video walk-through, what do you do next?

  • Urn, after we do the video walk-through, I would take overall scene photos of exactly how the scene is when you arrived before placing down placards or anything that I would do to assist in my investigation.

  • And so you take those photographs yourself?

  • And is that, do you use a department issued digital camera to do that?

  • Does that camera have a memory card?

  • And after you take these photos, what do you do with the memory card?

  • The memory card is placed into a photo envelope and then taken to our departments photo lab.

  • Now, when you're processing the crime scene and you are taking photographs, do you ever delete a photograph like if you take it and you look at it and you see that's blurry or doesn't show what you wanted it to show?

  • No, ma'am. When the flash goes off, that picture is what it is.

  • And so if you hit that shutter button 300 times, you have 300 pictures that you send to the photo lab?

  • Whether it comes out blurry or unrecognizable, it is going to be printed, correct?

  • So after the photo lab, and then let me ask you this, do you edit those photos in any way, do you on your camera, do you use color contrast or do anything to edit the image that you are taking?

  • No, ma'am, I do not.

  • And after that card then goes to the lab, does the lab print up your photos?

  • Do they call you up and say hey, Matt, photos are ready?

  • For homicide scenes, part of our protocol is we stamp each individual photo as an official photograph, but yes, they download our photographs from our memory card to their servers and then for homicide scenes and other various scenes where stuff is requested they print out 8 X lOs that we come down and stamp. (Deposition Exhibit Number 3

  • marked for identification.)

  • (Deposition Exhibit Number 3 marked for identification.)

  • (By Ms. Alizadeh) Okay. So I'm going to hand you what I've marked as GJ 3, which is a yellow envelope. Do you recognize your handwriting on that?

  • And when you received that, did that envelope contain photographs?

  • I filled out this envelope and I put the photographs in here.

  • And the photographs that you put in there, were they the photographs that you took on the scene at Canfield that day?

  • And you looked at each photograph individually?

  • And stamped them with your stamp?

  • And initialed them and number each one individually, correct?

  • On the outside of that envelope, does it say how many photographs you took?

  • Did you go through those photographs and assure yourself that there are 161 photographs in there?

  • I'm going to remove these photographs. And these photographs are not individually marked with stickers. So I'm just going to hand you the stack first and you had indicated that you put your stamp on the back?

  • And typically write the number and your initials, you didn't on that one?

  • I didn't put the initial on that one.

  • Okay. Let's look at the first one and this is depicting what?

  • This would typically be your first and last picture and anything that's seen, it is crime scene information board.

  • And so I'm going to put this up there. This has the date, the complaint number, which is what, what's the complaint?

  • Complaint number is basically your report number. I particularly put the county complaint number, which is denoted by our municipal code, which is 99, so our report number would be 99-14-43984. The smaller number you see lower right is Ferguson's complaint number, their mini code is 33-14-12391.

  • The 99 is for county number?

  • That denotes county number.

  • 33 is Ferguson?

  • And 14 is 2014?

  • Whatever sequential number is the next one up in the hopper is the number you get?

  • So you've indicated the incident assault on LEO?

  • And then detective DSN, that stands for?

  • Departmental serial number, which is slang for badge number.

  • Each officer has their own DSN?

  • Now, just so the jurors can see, I'm going to turn this over and you said that you stamp each photograph with your stamp and it says initial photograph St. Louis County Police Department Detective and your DSN, correct?

  • And then it says badge number?

  • Image number.

  • Image, okay, and then your initials?

  • So there you have written the number one?

  • And neglected to put your initialed on there?

  • But you recall taking this photo of the placard, correct?

  • Now, I want to draw your attention also because this will become information later, there's some printing on the back of this photo that looks like it is computer generated?

  • I'm going to turn it around because it is upside down. Does this printing print out on each photograph as it comes out of the printer at the lab?

  • So it says on there SLCPD, that's St. Louis County Police Department, correct?

  • And then it says DCS, and then there's a four digit number?

  • And on this photograph it says 0001?

  • And the one is circled, did you circle that?

  • And then it says dot JPG?

  • And then it says 0001 again; is that right?

  • So the printing that appears on the back of each photo, does it sequentially number these as 0001 and then the next one in order would be 0002 and so forth?

  • As far as the DSC number, that's the number of the photograph on the file card. So this picture is number one, the next picture would be number two.

  • The second number that you see 0001, those are not always going to be in sequential order for this stack. Different things number, this one printed up three separate copies. So while this picture will always be number one, the next picture may have number four or number eight, whatever number that photo was print off.

    If they printed up four photos of that one, it would also be DSC1, the second set of numbers could be 001 through 4, depending on which number it was in the stack.

  • Okay. So the number that you circled, which is the first number, that's what we are talking about, this is your first photo?

  • Yes, ma'am. There are several ways to stamp the back of these. Some officers just use the official photograph stamp and would just circle that number as the image number.

  • So when you went through each of these photographs, did you check to make sure you had each of the 161 photos in sequential order?

  • And then after determining that, you put your initials typically and you write the number on the photograph?

  • Not every detective does that?

  • So we're just going do go through these. That was Image Number 1, which was your placard that you do at the beginning of every?

  • And the first and last photographs.

  • Okay. So I'm going to put up here, I'm not going to do this on everyone, but just to show you guys there's the number two, correct?

  • And then again on this photo it has got 0002 on there?

  • This is the second picture you took, correct?

  • And after having looked at all of these photos, do you feel that these photos accurately depicted the scene as you saw it that day?

  • For the most part, yes, ma'am.

  • Okay. I want to make sure I get the whole photo. There we go.

    And so in Image Number 2, can you describe what is depicted there? And you can use your pointer if you want.

  • I'm going to get out of the way.

  • This would be the first photo that we took after the initial walk-through and the walk-through with the video. Some of the things that this video shows overall number one, here is where my crime scene van is parked. The traffic cones that you see are things that were set in place prior to my arrival.

    Different pieces of evidence, Ferguson officers or anyone else officer wise that were there that knew part of the story of the scene would denote that, you know, just kind of make sure hey, this is where this is at or make sure no one steps on it or moves it.

  • Let me stop you here, Detective.

  • I know some of you on the end may not be able to see the entire image because of the way that screen is recessed into the wall. So first of all, these photos will all be available to you to handle and look at at any time you want to see them, but if you feel that you can't see, you want to move your chair around here and again, if you are asking questions, just state your juror number, it doesn't matter if you are in order, just as long as you state your juror number.

  • So this perspective where I'm standing is also where I started the video walk-through. It is the southwest corner of the scene.

    You can see this is Officer Wilson's car, down here you can see another Ferguson vehicle and another Ferguson vehicle down at the eastern end. Those are cars that were there when I showed up to start my investigation. So again, when I show up, I try not to move anything because I photograph how I come into a scene.

    Those vehicles were not there at the time of the incident, they were placed there by Ferguson officers to help secure a crime scene and to block views of Michael Brown's body.

  • So Michael Brown's body is in between those two Ferguson police cars and those are SUVs, correct?

  • Yes, ma'am. And you can see the corner of an orange body screen between the two cars, that is something that I set up after my arrival to assist in blocking views.

  • Why do you do that?

  • A number of reasons one, privacy. Two, seeing a dead body in the middle of the street is often disturbing to a lot of people. It is out of respect for the victim, out of respect for the family, out of respect for everyone to just kind of take away a visual sign of stress more than anything.

  • You learned at some point that family members of Michael Brown had arrived at the scene, correct?

  • Were they allowed to enter the crime scene?

  • Initially, no. I think towards the end, not towards the end, but when the medical examiner had arrived and were getting ready to move the body, I believe Michael Brown's father, I think, but a family member was allowed to step inside while we, the crime scene, while we removed his body as part of the investigation.

  • So keeping anyone out, including family members, that's all because you want this crime scene to be as pristine and undisturbed as possible, correct?

  • That's our goal, yes.

  • And so at this point, about how long into you being on the scene are we now?

  • If I arrived 1:15 or so, probably find the time stamp on this photo, it is no less than an hour after I arrived just because in between this photo being taken and my arrival was when the gunshots were fired a second time close to the crime scene and everything was put on hold.

  • Now, this shooting occurred at approximately what time?

  • I think I was told 12:14, 12:15.

  • A little after noon?

  • And were you present when the body was removed?

  • And would it be fair to say that it was almost four hours later before the body was removed?

  • Is that unusual that a deceased person would be left at the scene for that long of period of time?

  • No, ma'am, that is fairly common, almost routine.

  • And in this case, you mentioned that there were a number of times where everybody had to kind of stop what they were doing because the scene was becoming dangerous?

  • Yes, ma'am. Not only do you have to take into the fact what we were dealing with at the scene security and personal safety, but St. Louis County, who was requested to the scene to investigate, we were not notified until almost an hour afterwards. If you look at the time of four hours as a whole, we only got there a little after 1:00 to start our investigation.

  • Okay. So now in the photograph, I would imagine it is fairly clear to everyone, this is the driver's side of this vehicle, correct?

  • And it is facing west, towards West Florissant, correct?

  • If everyone can look at your diagram, you diagram that as the vehicle, the rear left tire is over the double yellow lines; is that right?

  • Now, this tape that's wrapped around this vehicle, did you put that tape on there?

  • All right. Would you have typically done that?

  • So that was done before your arrival?

  • Okay. And so you left it there and that's how you photographed it?

  • That's how it was when you got there?

  • And then these cones you talked about, these were placed before you got there?

  • And during your walk-through with the Ferguson officer as you said, would you say why these cones were placed in various locations?

  • If you all have a question about a particular photograph, rather than having to say can we see that one again that had the blank, blank, blank, ask it now, probably make this go smoother. Yes?

    , this may be answered later, I don't know. I just want to know why is the door closed, do we have any idea why the door of the SUV was closed or was it reentered?

  • That will probably be addressed by other people. This detective wasn't present beforehand and as he had said, his statement is this is how it was when he got there. So there will be other witnesses who are going to be called to testify being first on the scene, what they saw, whether they photographed anything, but that's the way he observed it.

    Any other questions about Image Number 2?

  • (By Ms. Alizadeh) Image Number 3, again, it has got your three on there. Describe what that image shows?

  • This is kind of, I moved slightly east from the first viewpoint, and typically what I would do when I'm photographing an overall scene photograph, I would stand in one spot and just pan my camera taking this angle, I twist, this angle, twist, twist. So if you can picture laying four pictures out side by side, you would get, in essence, a panoramic view of the scene.

    And I would do this at this point, in the middle of the side of street, at the other end, go to the other side and just do the same thing. It is called bracketing photos.

  • Okay. And so this is just a slightly different angle from the previous image. You see your that's your van there?

  • On the left side of the image, correct?

  • Okay. Anyone have any questions about this?

  • (By Ms. Alizadeh) Image Number 4.

  • Again, this would be, the left side of this picture would be the tail end of Darren Wilson's car, again, looking farther east.

  • Okay. Now, I think if you can see, this is crime tape; is that right?

  • Police tape, and does it appear that there is police tape back there as well?

  • Yes, initially when we arrived, this first piece of crime scene tape was the barrier to the crime scene. After several people had torn down the crime scene tape, run onto the scene, the gunshots being fired, the crowd would run from this building in particular from this side of the crime scene, around this building, through the parking lot to this side of the crime scene, depending on what was happening.

    We had an opening where the crowd had run to the eastern end of the crime scene. So several people moved or put up a new set of crime scene tape farther back into the parking lot to try to keep people farther away from the crime scene.

  • Okay. So that was done not because you determined that somehow this area was now a part of the crime scene, it was done to keep the crowd from encroaching upon the crime scene?

  • So there's no particular processing of this scene, you didn't suddenly say I'm going to go and photograph and walk around this area?

  • No, ma'am. The only thing I think that we did in that area was film a witness' perspective with our video cameras and that is even farther back from where that crime scene tape is set.

  • Anyone have any questions about this image?

  • (By Ms. Alizadeh) And this is image number five. Can you describe for them what you're seeing, what this image depicts?

  • From this angle, I think you are going to start to see that I am in the middle of what I would deem the crime scene looking east on the south side, I'm sorry, looking west from the south side of the road, and I will start kind of a pan from my left to my right.

    Again, you can see Darren Wilson's police car, the cone that had been set up, my crime scene van and then I had mentioned before my crime scene van was just inside the initial crime scene tape. You can see a crowd of people gathering there on top of this hill and, of course, you can see the amount of vehicle traffic that is now blocking Canfield.

  • Okay. So the first series of photos you were closer to this area to where this police officer is, and you walk down here and take another series of bracketing photographs?

  • Any questions about that?

  • (By Ms. Alizadeh) Number 6.

  • Similar image as before, I had just tilted a little bit so now you can see Darren Wilson's car is on the left side of the photo and I'm panning to my right, or to the east.

  • Image Number 7?

  • The center of the crime scene. I am basically in the middle looking from south to the north across Canfield.

  • (By Ms. Alizadeh) Image Number 8. Can you describe what you see in there?

  • Same scene or same location, I've now turned further to the east. This is, I believe this is Caddiefield, at the intersection of Canfield and Caddiefield. A Ferguson police car, an SUV was not described to me, was not there at the scene, it was put in place to block the body.

    Where the white sheet is laying between this police car and the orange body screens is Michael Brown's body.

    I'm not sure what department vehicle that is, again, it is a police SUV used to block this street and to assist with security at the crime scene.

  • So the two vehicles you see in this picture as far as you know had nothing to do with the incident?

  • Image Number 9.

  • Now, I'm now standing, if you get the perspective, the Ferguson SUV that was in the middle of the street is directly to my right now. I'm looking back west on Canfield. This is Officer Wilson's SUV.

  • (By Ms. Alizadeh) Number 10?

  • Same view, I've stepped into the street a little farther this time. You can see this is the back of the vehicle that was blocking Michael Brown's body.

  • Standing in the same place looking east. I turned my camera to the north, that's the tail end of the same vehicle that you saw in the previous picture.

  • So this is looking north as you are standing on Canfield?

  • And so Michael Brown's body would be outside of the frame on the right?

  • Image Number 12.

  • I've now turned, same viewpoint looking to the east. You can see the Ferguson police vehicle blocking this end of the crime scene, several cones that were placed out prior to my arrival marking evidence that they had located. Under the sheet is where Michael Brown's body is located. The sheet was also placed there prior to my arrival.

    The orange body screens are things that I added to the scene when I arrived to assist in our investigation.

  • From your perspective, the other Ferguson vehicle that was blocking the scene was in this direction; is that correct?

  • Yes, ma'am, it would be over my left shoulder.

  • That hasn't been removed from the scene?

  • No, ma'am, it is still there.

  • Same standard view, I've moved from the street level back across the sidewalk to show a wider perspective. Again you see, you get a better look at the different cones were set up marking the evidence around it.

  • And just to clarify, this here is that Copper Creek Court on your diagram?

  • So vehicles can drive up here and park back here, right?

  • Standing further east looking back west you can see now that there is crime scene tape between this, my viewpoint and Michael Brown, give you a wider, overall perspective of the crime scene.

  • You are still looking west on Canfield towards West Florissant?

  • So this vehicle, again, is not involved in the crime scene, it is blocking?

  • Correct. The vehicle that you see in the far end of this photograph that's angled is Officer Darren Wilson's car.

  • Now, in the image, what is this thing right here on the ground?

  • This is a sand weight that is used to weigh down these body screens. They are made out of extreme light PVC and cloth, so any type of breeze would move them. You can see that there are several weights holding down the feet of the body screens that are up. This is one that was just left there while we were there.

  • That is yours?

  • But not part of the crime scene?

  • Same viewpoint. I think I just turned a little bit to the north side again because in the last picture, you could see Officer Darren Wilson's car to the far end, I'm just panning to my right.

  • I've now moved to the north side of the street and I'm looking south. This is the car that was used to block the view of the body, the body screens that I assembled and set up. Again, the body screen weight that was left at the scene, Michael Brown's body is behind these screens, this is Caddiefield that you can probably see in your diagram, I think.

  • And now we see the crime scene tape along here and running across here. These people back here are just a part of the crowd that's gathered?

  • Approximately how many people, if you had to guess, bystanders that were just there?

  • In that photograph?

  • Just overall?

  • Altogether, 3 to 400.

  • I'm going to show you Image Number 17.

  • Same viewpoint, on the north side of the street looking south. Again, the body screens and then this vehicle here is Darren Wilson's police car.

  • Now, at any time during the time you were processing the scene, did you feel that anybody, whether it was a police officer or a citizen in any way suggested that you not perform your duties the way you thought they should be performed?

  • Were you ever told don't photograph this or in any way did you feel that someone was trying to influence you to do something other than what you felt you would typically do?

  • No, ma'am, not at all.

  • Looking at Number 18.

  • Same viewpoint, I've now turned almost completely east. This is the vehicle blocking Michael Brown's body. His body would be just to the left out of frame and this is Darren Wilson's police car.

  • I have a question, are you by yourself as you are walking around doing these photographs or anybody with you?

  • During the video process of it, since it is a continuous video, at this particular scene I typically would have one person, another crime scene detective that is assisting me walk with me, basically with a hand on my shoulder making sure I don't trip over something in a hallway or a street, because I'm looking directly at that view finder so I can get the perspective I want to. This particular case there was, I was running the video and I had three other crime scene, two other detectives and my detective sergeant. One was guiding me so I didn't trip or step on anything, the other two to get the perspective for the video. I had to get very close to the crowd. So the two people that were assisting him were making sure the crowd wasn't going to grab, push, throw, do something to us.

  • Short answer no, I don't do videos by myself, photographs I do, I do by myself.

  • (By Ms. Alizadeh) You make the determination in what's being photographed, nobody says take a picture of this, don't take a picture of this?

  • They might point out?

  • They can point out something that they would like to have a photograph of as part of their investigation. But never have I been told don't photograph this.

  • Okay. Number 19?

  • This is from the same view point as the previous picture. We use 18 to 35 millimeter lenses. I just zoomed in to the 35 millimeter to show perspective of Darren Wilson's police car.

  • Yes. From the last perspective I have was standing here looking almost directly east. I've now moved to the center of the north side of Canfield looking back east. Again, Caddiefield is, that's the street sign for Copper Creek Court and then Michael Brown's body.

  • So Darren Wilson's vehicle is down this street to the right?

  • And that's 21, I believe, let me look.

  • Same perspective. I've now twisted to my right. Caddiefield Court would be to your left. You can no longer see the street sign just looking to my right.

  • Number 22. You want to hand them to me?

  • I can, I can probably put them up on this.

  • You want to do that?

  • This is number?

  • 22. That will make it easier.

  • Same perspective. The vehicle that was in view in the previous photograph is partially cut off. I'm panning farther to my right showing my bracketed part of the scene. Any questions?

    Photo Number 23. Same as before, turning farther to my right. Now you can see Darren's police car within the scene and the cones marking different pieces of evidence.

    Number 24. Almost the exact same photo as before. I think I may have zoomed in to show the area which we were looking at.

    Number 25. I didn't initial it. As the perspective goes from the diagram, I'm now standing on the northwest corner of the crime scene looking east, Caddiefield is on your right, Copper Creek Court is here on your left, and then the two vehicles that were blocking Michael Brown's body.

    Number 26. Same perspective just, turning to my right bracketing the photo.

    Number 27. Turning farther to my right, you can no longer see the two vehicles that were blocking the body and this is the center of Canfield.

    Number 28. I'm on the north side of the road facing almost directly south in the middle of the crime scene. You can see on the right-hand side of this photograph, the back end of Darren Wilson's police car that has the crime scene tape applied directly to it. The crime scene tape that you see on the ground again from one of the earlier photos, that was one of the crime scene tape officially put after the crowd moved. They were able to take that down and move that crime scene perimeter back.

    Number 29. Panning to my right further, the previous picture you could see the tail end of the car. Here again is the police car in its entirety and the tape had been torn down.

    Number 30. I've now moved farther to the west. Still on the north side of the street, this is the front end of Darren Wilson's police car.

  • Now, let me stop you here. As a part of the scene like this type of scene, if you had noted or scene, for example, tire marks, whether they are skid marks or marks in the grass indicating possibly, you know, the travel of the vehicle, the speed it was traveling and so forth, and you're not an accident reconstruction person, correct?

  • If you had seen tire tracks, like skid marks around this vehicle, would you have documented those?

  • Yes, that would have been something that I would have recognized as probably important to the scene. No tire tracks of any sort, any skid marks or I didn't notice any and none were brought to my attention and I didn't document anything.

  • And in preparation for your testimony today, did you and I look in these photographs and did you look to see if you could see in those photographs?

  • We did, yes.

  • Did you see any type of tire marks or skid marks?

  • No, it was images that we looked at that had closer views of the tires on his police car that were actually focused on pieces of evidence, and we could not see any type of skid or tread mark anywhere.

  • And those pictures are included in your batch of pictures?

  • Was it brought to your attention, this is Sheila Whirley, was it brought to your attention that you should look for skid marks.

  • At the scene?

  • Number 31. Same perspective where I had moved, I could see in front of Darren Wilson's police car. Now looking back farther to the east, kind of bracketing photos from my right to my left this time.

    Number 32. Same perspective. Turned from the northwest corner looking almost directly east.

    Number 33. Same perspective again, 18 to 35 millimeter lenses. I just zoomed in that perspective to give you an idea what we were looking at farther down the street.

  • (By Ms. Alizadeh) So you didn't actually walk closer to that scene?

  • No, ma'am. Just zoomed in from the previous perspective.

    Number 34, the first group of pictures were what we refer to as my overall photos of everything. Now is when I would typically start taking my individual photos of items of evidence.

  • Okay. So can you describe what number is this, 34?

  • This is number 34, yes.

  • What is this picture and why you took it?

  • Okay. As a procedural thing, if I'm going to do my evidence in order, you can see now you will see the yellow evidence tents are placed down throughout the scene. In particular number one. In a perfect world, you would take a photograph of evidence number one, you move to number two, number three just to keep everything in order and that's the order that we find things. There is not necessarily a rule or law that says the item that you see first has to be number one and everything has to go in order.

    It could very well, for instance, in this scene, if I marked number one and number three, or that's number two there, I could mark 1 through 30 and then when we're getting ready to go find a shell casing on the other side of number one and have that be evidence item number 31. So it is not necessarily in the physical space things are numbered, they are numbered how we find them.

  • So during the first series of photographs that we've seen and that was kind of your walk-through of the scene?

  • Did you take a break and then place placards in areas or were those placards visible in your earlier photographs?

  • No, they are not visible in the overall photographs. The overall photographs I take right after the video is done to show an overall view in pictures, not just video, of what the scene looks like when I arrived.

  • So after you've got done with the overall walk-through photographs.

  • Is that when you then go through the scene and put placards down?

  • At that point I would walk through and placard items that I know our evidence. Things that are pointed out to me that were noted by the traffic cones first responding officers put down that they saw, and I would put my placards there on those pieces of items.

    During that time you may notice another shell casing or something else and, of course, we would placard that. Once those things are placard, we start taking our overall photos and close-up of each placard.

  • These items that have a placard, and I think maybe you can see that that is number one there, does that correspond with your diagram where you have a number one with a circle on it?

  • At this point after having documented these placards and you said you took measurements at a later time, those items that are numbered are depicted on the diagram?

  • Correct, on the diagram. All the little bubbles you see, and that's not the best copy of it, but all the small circles that you see have a number inside of them denoting that item of evidence and its location at the scene.

  • And then the legend that's attached to that diagram would tell you what number one is?

  • Okay. And so number one here by the tire, of the front left tire of Darren Wilson's vehicle, what is that?

  • I don't have my list. I'm not sure, is it a bracelet?

  • Here, is this yours?

  • It is a black and yellow bracelet.

  • And then this thing right here, number two, what is that?

  • A red baseball cap.

  • Number three?

  • A spent .40 caliber shell casing.

  • Any questions so far?

    Number five is another black bracelet?

  • When you, I guess, put the placards down.

  • Was there anything that you found on your own or was everything already marked?

  • No, there were several items that I found on my own afterwards.

  • You said that three and four were .40 caliber spent casings, on the list it says Federal, what is meant by Federal?

  • Federal is a brand name. Federal is the name of the brand that is actually stamped on the tail end of the bullet.

  • Any time you want to take a break or stand up, feel free to do so.

  • The previous image was kind of an overall view of the several placards that you could see. So in the previous image you saw what I would term overall view. This would be an intermediate view kind of referencing where in space placard number one is, you can still see the driver's front wheel of that.

    Image 36. This would be the close-up view of item number one. This is a hard plastic placard that's number one, that has a scale printed on it to show size. And that's the black and yellow white bracelet.

  • (By Ms. Alizadeh) Now at this time, do you know if that bracelet has anything to do with your scene or the incident?

  • You are photographing things, you're not sure what involvement they may, they may have direct relation to the incident, they may have no relation to the incident?

  • Correct.

    Image 37.

  • Can you twist it?

  • Yes. This would be the overall view that I would show starting to zoom in on item number two, again, giving reference in space how it is located to Darren Wilson's vehicle.

  • I will tell all of you that when it comes time to you actually looking at the photos, they are not as blurry as what you are seeing up here.

  • Thank you for clarifying that. I do take better photographs than that.

    Image 38. This would be the intermediate view of evidence item number two.

    Image 39. I think we spoke about this yesterday, the evidence item placard number two has an asphalt mark, tar mark in the middle of the placard. Has nothing to do, this is showing evidence item number two, just happened to be there in the photograph.

  • (By Ms. Alizadeh) This thing here to the right?

  • That is the traffic cone that was in place prior to my arrival marking the location of that piece of evidence.

  • So you don't remove the traffic cones when you are doing this?

  • Had that traffic cone not been there, would have placed that placard to the right side of the cap then?

  • I try not to move anything when I'm placing my placards.

  • Image Number 40. We were going towards, I think that's item number three, again, my overall view showing space where it is located on the driver's side.

    Image 41, intermediate view of item number three.

    Image 42, would be my close-up view of item number three, which again is the spent .40 caliber Federal shell casing.

  • (By Ms. Alizadeh) Now, let me ask you a question. I want to clear up something, some people might perceive, are you in any way saying that that was the third shot fired by giving that number three?

  • Are you able to determine when you are collecting these shell casings in what order these shell casings were fired out of a weapon?

  • So each little shell casing doesn't come with a number on it that you put in your magazine in a numeric way?

  • No, they do not.

  • It would help you if they did, correct?

  • Tremendously so. These things, the numbers, the placards in any of my photos and most anyone they have nothing to do with the order in which things were done during a crime. They are specifically the order in which we found that piece of evidence, and the number that's assigned to it is just to help us determine which piece of evidence it is. Has no other chronological significance.

  • So in your report you refer to that this is evidence item number three in the envelope it is packaged in, it is denoted as evidence item number three?

  • With a description?

  • So it keeps that number?

  • This shell casing that you photographed is still number three, your evidence item number three?

  • It is my evidence item number three.

  • Okay.

    I don't know too much about guns and stuff like that, so from that shell casing, where is the front of the bullet, where is the back of the bullet, can you tell me what direction it is facing?

  • Let me clarify something here. We will have ballistics people, let me ask you detective, are you trained in firearms?

  • Yes, I am a firearms instructor for our police department.

  • (By Ms. Alizadeh) So you feel that it is within your expertise to talk about, this is called a cartridge; is that right?

  • A casing. You are able to answer her question, you feel comfortable doing that?

  • Yes, ma'am, I can do that.

  • As far as the direction the bullet is facing, I can't tell you, but as far as what you would determine the front would be where the actual bullet itself would come from, would be this hollow end of the shell casing.

  • You talked a second about how that happens, how a handgun goes through that process, how casings are ejected, it doesn't happen every time they fire a bullet. How far do you think they might travel, anything about that for people that are not familiar with that? You might want to address that.

  • You know what, I would like to talk about in answer to your question is his familiarity with cartridges and shell casings and projectiles and firing pins because he can testify about that, but as far as like how they're ejected from a particular gun, how far they travel, I believe we had this conversation before today, you feel that is outside of your area of expertise?

  • Far outside.

  • If you want to ask him questions about how, what the components what we normally think of is a bullet what are the components, what happens to it when it is fired, I think he can answer that.

    Just to rephrase, one of these casings is ejected every time this weapon is fired, this particular weapon is fired, correct?

  • If it functions properly, correct.

  • Any other questions?

    Are we also to expect all of these listings for a casing are from Officer Wilson's gun at the time.

  • We will have testimony that will talked about their comparison. As you recall he talked about taking items of evidence to the lab and our laboratory has a ballistics section. So at some point you will hear about the testing that they did and they will refer to this as evidence item three, but to make it even more confusing for you, the lab will give it it's own number. It will be like Q7 or something.

    But there will always be paperwork to show that this shell casing right there was picked up by this officer and put in an envelope and it is forever his evidence item number three. It might have another lab number that the lab uses and then someone who is going to testify about what they did with this and what conclusions they draw from their examination.

    Okay, thank you.

  • Image 43. This would be my overall view of evidence item number four, which is down here in the lower part of the photo.

  • (By Ms. Alizadeh) This is Darren Wilson's vehicle?

  • Correct, you can still see the placards for one, two and three.

  • Image 44. In the previous image I was standing on the southern side of the road looking north, and you can see item number four.

    What they typically will do again in a perfect world is you always try to angle your placards all facing the same direction. So if you are standing in the middle of the road, you can see the number of each one because they are basically a triangle. And turned to the side you can't see what number it is on.

    So in this photo all I did was turn or moved to my left a little bit so you can see the front of the evidence placard.

  • Can I ask you, and you can see it also in Image Number 43, and you can kind of see it in this image, but there is a thing that's down here that's yellow?

  • I believe that is actually a knotted up piece of crime scene tape.

  • So that's not a placard?

  • No, ma'am, it is not a placard. I believe initially that was laying down somewhere around here near this item number four, which is another shell casing. When and/or something moved or threw it down on the sidewalk.

  • So that yellow thing right there has no, as far as you know, no evidentiary value?

  • You didn't seize it or package it?

  • Image 45. Close-up view of item number four, another spent shell casing.

    Image 46. I've now moved over to the northern side of the street and this is my overall view of evidence item number five.

    Again, in a perfect world, the attempt is made to photograph items of evidence in the order that I find them.

    Image 47. Intermediate view of placard number five.

    Image 48. Clarify this as again another intermediate view. You can still see part of Darren Wilson's police car, be it that may be a running board somewhere at the bottom of his vehicle, again, placard number five.

    Image 49. Close-up view of the vehicle, the bottom of the vehicle can no longer be seen. My evidence placard and then a black beaded bracelet.

    Image Number 50. This, looking at the next photo, this is an overall view of evidence item number eight, I think the last one we had was number five. Again, the ideal world you can photograph everything in sequential order. I believe items number six and seven were farther down the street. So at the time that this photo was taken, I didn't want to move down the street and then move back. Eight and nine were right in front of the car.

    I stayed in this area to continue with the photograph, this overall view. What we are looking at here is a red stain on the driver's door.

    Image 51. You can see this is what we would use as a placard. There is some adhesive removable stickers that are numbered one through zero or one through nine and zero that we can make combination of numbers. Obviously, this is something that we would typically stick on a vehicle or a window or something that we can't stick a placard onto, just to number in our photographs as evidence item number eight. It is denoting a red stain below that.

    52, Image 52. This would be the close-up view and again, it is not in focus with the projector, but you can see that the placard number eight is there, it has a small scale and items of this nature. We would typically insert my own visual scale in the photo to show size and shape of whichever item I'm photographing at that time.

  • Now, Detective all of these systems so far that you've testified about are all things that you at some point picked up and put them in an envelope and packaged them, correct?

  • So this is a red stain that is on the side of a vehicle, correct?

  • Did you seize that?

  • And how do you seize something like that?

  • This particular piece of evidence, we call it a red stain, it was actually kind of, I don't want to use the term fleshy, but it wasn't like a liquid. I was actually able to seize that with a pair of tweezers.

  • So that red thing just kind of peeled off the car?

  • It came off completely, yes.

  • And you packaged that substance or whatever it was?

  • Was, in your experience with working with, for example, you know, blood stains or blood spatters, did it appear as if it was a blood droplet or spatter?

  • So it was something else?

  • Something else.

  • Image 53. Overall view, what this is looking at this is obviously, not obviously, still the driver's side of the vehicle, rear passenger door, the rear tire here. You can see the placard I put on there. Again, was an adhesive sticker for number nine. It is covered up partially by the police crime scene tape that was applied by Ferguson prior to our arrival.

  • So to find that item number nine, you actually lifted up the crime scene tape to look at the vehicle, but then once you placed a placard on the car, you put the crime scene tape back where it was?

  • So you did move something on the crime scene, but only to search for evidence?

  • Yes, ma'am.

    Image 54. You can see this photograph, crime scene tape is no longer there and basically what's happening is I am holding the crime scene tape up with my left hand and taking the picture with my right hand.

  • And what is Exhibit 9 or what is your item number?

  • Number 9 is a red stain on the exterior of the driver's side rear door.

  • Okay. On the driver's side rear door?

  • It is a four door vehicle?

  • Correct. A lot of times people use left, right sided vehicle, that often still confuses me. I use driver and passenger side.

    This would be a close-up view of the red stain on the driver's side rear door. Again, adhesive sticker, and the evidence below it.

    Image 56, this would be the previous photo was shot more at an angle or somewhat of an angle. This you can see the crime scene tape, I can no longer hold it up with my left hand and hold my scale and tape. So I pushed it down below the item of evidence so I can again put my scale into the photograph so you can show the size and shape of the red stain.

  • Now, did you seize that item number nine?

  • Yes, this particular piece of evidence appeared to be some type of dried liquid. I was able to collect it with a DNA swab.

  • So do you have swabs that you carry in your van?

  • Yes, ma'am, sterile swabs from the manufacturer, sterilized water that we use to wet it. It is oversized professional Q-Tips. We wet the end of it, that piece of evidence we were able just to collect it with a Q-Tip and put it into a package and submit it.

  • The entire time you are at the crime scene, are you wearing latex gloves?

  • Yes, 90, 95 percent of the time if I'm at my van doing paperwork, it is not always easy to write paperwork, but any time I leave my van, majority of the time between collecting different items of evidence, you change gloves between those items.

  • So the tools that you use to collect this are in a kit that the police department purchases from a company, correct?

  • Our crime lab.

  • Your crime lab?

  • They are sterile?

  • They are specifically for the purpose of collecting items that might be analyzed for DNA at a future time?

  • So no one else's DNA would have been on that Q-Tip prior to you opening that package and then rubbing, you said wet the Q-Tip with sterile water?

  • And then you basically rub it on that stain?

  • In essence, is it somewhat, it then changes that stain, correct?

  • It does. Generally the stains that are that small, the stain is gone when we collect it.

  • Obviously outside of microscopic traces that would still be left on there, to the naked eye I took that stain off of there.

  • And then regarding evidence item number eight, the substance that you removed with tweezers?

  • The tweezers that you use, are those also

  • Again, supplied by our crime lab, sterilized individually packaged, they came out of the same DNA kit.

  • You open up those?

  • One time use.