We're not recording, but you can take down what's said other than the fact that we would redact the identifying information from your transcript at some point.
So we are not recording, however, we are taking down the statement as it is being played. Sheila, go ahead.
(Third recorded statement of DETECTIVE This is Detective
with St. Louis County Police, uh, Bureau Crimes Against Persons, uh, Uh, also present is Detective St. Louis County Police, uh, Department, Crime Bureau Against Persons.
Urn, the date is 8/13/2014, it is a Wednesday. The time is 10:27 a.m. The interview is being conducted in the parking lot of DePaul Hospital.
Urn, the interview is in regards to St. Louis County Report Number 14-43984, which is classified as a homicide.
Uh, the person being interviewed is
, uh, black male, date of birth, (redacted) . Social security number,
(redacted) . Who resides at (redacted) .
Uh, he has a cell phone number of
Urn, , do you understand that this interview is being recorded?
Yes, I do. DETECTIVE This is being recorded with your permission?
DETECTIVE Are you willing to continue with the interview?
Yes. DETECTIVE Okay. All right. , urn, I know that, uh, one of our detectives has spoken with you, uh, on Saturday, August 9th, uh, on the day of the incident, in --in regard to what you saw. Urn, and basically through, urn, some information we received, we --we --we felt that there might be some more information that you might have.
So we came to reinterview you, and you mentioned to us briefly upstairs that you had a phone, uh, you had recorded a portion of this on your phone; is that correct?
Correct. DETECTIVE Okay. And, urn, the portion that you've recorded, uh, was directly after the shooting; is that correct?
Correct. DETECTIVE Okay. So, urn, that, this phone, this, urn, Samsung phone is yours?
Yeah. DETECTIVE And you did the recording?
Uh-huh. DETECTIVE And, urn, that's you talking on the video there, correct?
MR. Correct. DETECTIVE Okay. So, urn, prior to recording, I had you, uh, sign a consent to search form, uh, St. Louis County's, uh, consent to search for your Samsung phone, uh, with video related to the Ferguson incident; is that correct?
Correct. DETECTIVE Okay. And you did that of your own free will?
Yes. DETECTIVE Okay. And understand that all we are looking for on there is items related to the shooting itself?
Yes. DETECTIVE Okay. So, urn, like I said, since I didn't interview the first time and I have this new information about the phone, if you could just start from the beginning about where you were at in the apartment, urn, what you heard or observed, urn, and just kind of let, you know, retell us the story, okay?
Okay. DETECTIVE If you want, you go ahead and hold this so --
Okay. Well, urn, Saturday morning, a little bit after 11:30, a friend of mine stops over, wakes me up. Urn, I was outside with him for two or three minutes and he decides to leave. So I goes in the house, urn, goes back into my bedroom. Like another two, three minutes later I hear an altercation outside. And I looks out the window and I see a guy, Michael Brown, at the driver window of the Ferguson police car.
I'm not sure what was exchanged, urn, something was definitely going on in the window. So, urn, but all of the sudden I see Michael Brown and his friend runs away from the Ferguson police car.
DETECTIVE Let me stop you real quick. Urn, while they were at the --the door there, or while Michael was at the door.
Yes. DETECTIVE Urn, what do you think, what did you see there?
I, I saw some, some arms going through the window. It might have been Michael Brown's arm, he might have been punching a police officer, or whatever. Something was going on through the window.
DETECTIVE There's some kind of movement, exchange of
Yeah, some kind of movement, you know.
DETECTIVE Something going on there?
Yeah, something was definitely going on.
DETECTIVE Okay. Where, at that time that Michael's at the window where is, uh, his buddy at?
The --the, his buddy was basically in the front of the car on the other side.
DETECTIVE In the front of the police car?
Yeah, kind of, but away. DETECTIVE On the passenger side?
No, no, no, just in the front. In the front like, you know, he ain't even --
DETECTIVE So with, using my window, Michael Brown is to my left?
Yes in the window and the other guy was in the front
DETECTIVE So you see him --
probably like, away, kind of almost.
DETECTIVE How far?
--like, probably three, four, maybe five feet away from the car.
DETECTIVE So he's five feet from the front quarter panel
Yeah. DETECTIVE --of the police officer's vehicle?
Yeah. But I'm-- DETECTIVE So towards your apartment basically?
Yeah. DETECTIVE Okay, all right.
So, urn, so, like I said, the friend wasn't even, not close as much as Michael Brown was.
So, uh, like I said, all of the sudden they just immediately runs away from the car.
DETECTIVE They both did?
They both did. DETECTIVE Which direction did they go?
Uh, the --Michael Brown just runs back straight.
DETECTIVE Behind the correct?
Yeah, behind the vehicle, running straight down the road as the friend, he just ducks behind the first car that was parked off to the side, which is like a two door Monte Carlo or something.
DETECTIVE What color was that?
It was white. DETECTIVE Okay.
So, urn, like I said, the moment they got started running, urn, I just see the Ferguson cop just gets out the car and I hear the first four shots, I should say.
DETECTIVE Okay. And --and when you hear the first four shots, let me know where all three of these guy are at. Where is, where is his buddy, where is his buddy, first of all?
His buddy, his buddy was, about the time he was behind, hiding behind, urn, behind the trunk of the car, of the two door white Monte Carlo.
DETECTIVE So, so that's where he's at?
Yeah. DETECTIVE Okay. Where's
Like going around. DETECTIVE --the police officer at?
The police officer like, just getting out of the car.
Like, just getting out the car and Michael Brown is already probably like 25 feet
DETECTIVE Down the road?
down the road. DETECTIVE Okay.
So, urn, like I said, he hops out the car, urn, the first three, four shots that I noticed that was taken, I, that's when I yelled out to my fiancee, let's go outside cause this, urn, somebody, uh, the officer is shooting at somebody.
DETECTIVE Okay. Just hold on real quick. When those first four shots are being taken, where's the officer shooting from and which direction is Michael Brown facing?
Michael Brown is facing away from him.
DETECTIVE So he's still running?
Yeah, he, uh, he still -- DETECTIVE With his back to the officer?
--yeah, with his back to the officer.
And the officer is basically, urn--urn, when, like I say, when he's getting out of his car, he is basically walking towards the back as he's shooting.
DETECTIVE Okay. So --
And I see the friend, I'm still in the window.
And I see his friend, uh, like I say, he's ducking for his life, for he runs behind the trunk of the car. But that car, that passenger door was open.
You know, so I see, you know, kind of hops in after, urn
DETECTIVE Did he hop in the car?
I, obviously, he did. Urn, obviously he did because, like I said, urn, like the first four shots, the officer was taking big steps going past his car. When he got out of the car --
--so that's why I noticed that he's not shooting for the other guy because he walked past the white car, shooting.
DETECTIVE But did, but --but did, did he, what I'm saying though, did you see him get inside the car?
Yeah, he did. DETECTIVE He did get inside the car?
He did, he did, but not like that, like as far as like, urn, that was his car, like he just got out of it or something.
No, no, but he had his buddy with the dreadlocks.
Yeah, urn DETECTIVE He got into the car, the white Monte Carlo?
Yeah, the white Monte Carlo cause the door was open or whatever cause uh --
DETECTIVE Didn't it pull off?
Urn, I think it pulled off. DETECTIVE With him in it?
After --after when, urn, uh, when a Ferguson, as a matter of fact, I think it's, it might have been on my phone cause I seen a white car on my phone, but I didn't --
--I can't see if it's, urn-- DETECTIVE All right. So, but you saw this guy get into the car?
Yeah, I did see that. DETECTIVE Okay.
Because the door was open and, I guess, after when he got done shooting, I guess whoever that was driving told him, let's go cause he's afraid for his life
--I'm sure of that, I'm sure of that.
DETECTIVE Okay, all right. So you're positive he got in the car and he left in that car?
Yeah. DETECTIVE Okay, all right. So you're positive he got in the car and he left in that car?
Yeah. DETECTIVE Okay, all right. Let's go back to the officer and Michael's running down.
Yes. DETECTIVE The officer has exited his vehicle?
Yeah, and DETECTIVE He was, and so, urn, you said Michael was like 25 feet down the road
Yeah, already. DETECTIVE --his back is to the officer --
And, urn -- DETECTIVE You are, uh --
I'm, I'm, I'm DETECTIVE You're still on the porch, right? Or on the balcony?
Yeah, when it, after when he did the first shot, that's when I'm, urn, came outside. That's when I'm outside now, but when I came outside, he was already hit. But as far as in
DETECTIVE Okay. Is, so, I'm sorry, I I may be going too fast here, but, urn, so when you hear the initial shot, you're upstairs.
Yeah, in the bedroom. DETECTIVE Okay.
First floor, or three. DETECTIVE Okay. So then, okay, so you heard a shot and then you went outside?
And then I went outside. DETECTIVE And that's where you saw them kind of doing the
That's when the, no, no, urn, when I saw the first four shots, that's when I yelled out, let's go outside. When I, when I --
DETECTIVE I'm sorry, hold on just one second. I need to back up just a little bit because had you heard a shot before you saw them tussling in the car?
No, no, I heard an altercation.
DETECTIVE Okay. You're, that's when you heard that brought you outside initially?
No, uh, what brought me outside was the gunshots.
DETECTIVE Okay. I'm sorry, I'm, I'm trying to be very clear on this --
All right, I gotcha. DETECTIVE is why, which is why I'm, I'm having, so the very first thing that drew your attention was what?
The altercation. DETECTIVE Okay.
From hearing stuff. DETECTIVE Okay. So you heard them arguing?
Yeah. DETECTIVE Or some kind of --
Yeah. DETECTIVE --exchange of words.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. DETECTIVE is what you hear? What is first thing that you see?
Urn, a guy at the window doing something, something.
DETECTIVE Okay. Had you heard any gunshots at that point?
No, I didn't. No, I didn't. DETECTIVE Okay.
But a lot of people saying that they heard a gunshot starting from the inside, but like I said
DETECTIVE But you didn't hear that?
I, I didn't hear that. I mean, I might heard it if I was outside already.
But it probably DETECTIVE I understand. What I'm trying to see
I gotcha. DETECTIVE --what brought you outside.
I gotcha, I gotcha. DETECTIVE So, so let's skip forward to the part where, cause we know where he, we know where the friend was at. We know where he went.
Yeah. DETECTIVE We know, urn, so what I wanna take you back to is to the start the officer gets out of the vehicle.
Uh-huh. DETECTIVE And starts to go towards the back, Michael is running down the road.
Yeah. DETECTIVE And what is going on there?
Uh, like I said, by the time I got outside, so either --
DETECTIVE So --
--he must have hit from those first three or four shots.
DETECTIVE But that's what I want to talk to you about.
Right. DETECTIVE The --the first four shots that you're talking about?
Uh-huh. DETECTIVE I want to be very clear on where --
Uh-huh. DETECTIVE --the officer was at.
Yeah, urn, like I said, he he was, he was probably just passing the end of his truck.
DETECTIVE Oh, so by the rear bumper?
Yeah. DETECTIVE Driver side quarter panel area?
Yeah. DETECTIVE Okay.
Yeah. DETECTIVE Okay. So he, uh -- you know, has he already fired or he starts firing then?
Nah, he --he been shot, he been fired, he had been fired like when he got
DETECTIVE So from the time --
--he been fired. DETECTIVE So
But like, so when he got out the car
DETECTIVE He start firing as soon as he got --
Yeah, cause -- DETECTIVE --out.
the, that's how I noticed that, urn, uh, that he kept shooting, urn, walking past the white car where his friend was.
DETECTIVE Okay, okay. I just want to make sure that
So the four or four shots -- DETECTIVE So the the second he exited he started firing at Michael who was running away?
Yeah, so it was like pow, pow, pow, pow.
like take time and he was also taking big steps stepping out the car, and like I said --
--and I seen him shooting as he was walking.
DETECTIVE Was he yelling anything?
Uh, yeah, he --he -- DETECTIVE I don't want you speculating.
Yeah, yeah, I --he -- DETECTIVE Was, I mean, was he yelling anything at all? And, uh, even if you can't think --
You know, I can't even remember --I can't even remember that.
DETECTIVE You don't know?
I can't say, yeah. DETECTIVE Okay.
I can't even remember. DETECTIVE Okay.
Uh-huh. DETECTIVE So, urn, see as he's running and he's taken, taken his four shots, he is by the rear bumper.
Uh-huh. DETECTIVE What is Michael doing, how is he reacting?
Urn, like I said, about the time I got outside after, when I told my fiancee let's go outside. From the first shots, I goes outside and that's when I notice that, obviously, he's been hit because now he's facing the cop.
DETECTIVE Okay. Now where are you at, though?
Now I'm outside. DETECTIVE All right. do you have a map or no? Okay. You know where the, you know how you're, you're here near this part, right? Are you in that horseshoe section?
Yeah, exactly. DETECTIVE Okay. So your apartment's where.
Be about probably like, directly in the middle.
DETECTIVE Centered in there?
Yeah. DETECTIVE Okay.
And this is the street, so -(cid:173) DETECTIVE And this is about, uh, see, see Michael was down here, right? And the officer's truck was about here or so, or further up?
Yeah. DETECTIVE Show me.
Let me see, it just about -- DETECTIVE Just like, end of each part of the drive.
Right, right, urn, it's kind of like, start over and if this is the street.
And my window right DETECTIVE But you --
here and, uh, his vehicle is probably right here. Uh, yeah, he is probably about right here.
DETECTIVE That's where Mike's at?
Yeah. DETECTIVE Okay. Now, show me where --
So -- DETECTIVE --where that Monte Carlo was at?
--yeah, it was probably about right here. It was two cars actually, a white one and a purple one.
So, urn, after when I seen that --
DETECTIVE Oh, here you go. That's the map of the area.
Oh, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah. DETECTIVE So --
Yeah, so yeah. DETECTIVE --is this your building right here?
Urn, it is probably, I don't know, the shape's kind of weird. Yeah, I think that is it.
Okay. So, urn, so my window right there then, urn, yeah, so the car must have been --
DETECTIVE Car right there?
--right there and he must of, his body must have been about right there.
So -- DETECTIVE So, all right, so --
And, urn --by. DETECTIVE --by that time where are you standing watching this?
Urn -- DETECTIVE After the first four shots had been fired, where are you at?
I'm outside -- DETECTIVE Where?
after the first four, on my, urn, balcony, on my balcony.
DETECTIVE You're on the balcony?
Yeah. So, uh- DETECTIVE And did you go downstairs though?
Uh, I didn't go downstairs, this is, this was after the tape is up and stuff.
DETECTIVE Okay. So you never went downstairs?
I never went downstairs until afterwards.
DETECTIVE Okay, okay. So you're outside now when, after he's fired these first four shots?
Yeah. DETECTIVE Okay. Tell me what happens then?
Urn, when I steps outside, urn, the guy, obviously, urn, he's been hit, cause he curls up and I, but now he--he's facing the Ferguson, the Ferguson officer and, urn --
DETECTIVE So when you describe him curling up, show me?
Urn, he's uh, he's, like I said, like he's been hit in the stomach.
DETECTIVE He's bent over?
Yeah, kind of like -- DETECTIVE At the waist?
yeah, like he's about to fall and fall directly
on the ground. And, urn, but I see him takes like one or two steps, kind of like I said, towards him, you know --
DETECTIVE Now --
--now I don't know if that was a help sign, just a little bit.
Just a little bit. DETECTIVE Well, tell me this.
Uh-huh. DETECTIVE Everybody's describing his hands being up.
You know what, that now, that's like because when, when, okay. From where my balcony is, it's another building right there. Urn, he, where his blood spill at, where he got shot at, he ran past that.
Before he, you know got that DETECTIVE How'd he end up coming back?
Yeah, that's why the, that's, I was just, uh, what I'm, what I'm saying, like I said, he must have got hit and he, he probably had his hands up when he got hit.
DETECTIVE Oh, so you're saying that area
That's why everybody-- DETECTIVE --that area's out
keep saying that. DETECTIVE --of view?
Yeah, uh, quite uh, out of view, but he ran past the, uh, where he got shot at.
DETECTIVE Oh, so you're saying that area
That's why everybody-- DETECTIVE --that area's out
keep saying that. DETECTIVE Okay. So the, the part of the area where he got shot with those four?
Yeah, he --he, yeah. Where he died at, he ran past that spot.
DETECTIVE And came back to that spot?
So obviously, I think when he got hit, that's when he probably raised his hands up, but he's then curled up--
--just walking, took a couple steps back towards him, he probably had one hand up, but he had his hands down here and the officer let out about four more shots and he hit the ground just like how he's laying.
DETECTIVE So you see him bent over.
Yeah, just like that. DETECTIVE What I'm saying though is after he's bent over there is another four shots.
Yeah, yeah, another four or three shots just like that. And everybody saying like he was already down and the officer let out a shot. I don't know, but I know what I saw, you know, before he hit the ground, he let out four more shots. I don't know, but I know what I saw. So --
before he hit the ground, he let off four more shots.
So I can't remember DETECTIVE And where he
if he said freeze or, or, or said something before he let out the last ones, but I know when he --
DETECTIVE Did you hear Michael say anything before those last four
No, I didn't, huh-uh. DETECTIVE Okay.
No. DETECTIVE So, where he, where he was at in the street, is that where he fell? The the, like, nobody moved him?
No, ain't nobody moved him or nothing.
Nothing so, uh -- DETECTIVE Nobody touched his body?
Nobody touched him, uh, after, right after that, the officer just stood over it, like 5 feet away from him with his gun on his walkie-talkie thing.
And called the first two or whatever.
And that was it. DETECTIVE All right. Is there anything that I haven't asked you or that you feel you need to clarify?
Uh, no, that's everything really. Everything that I saw.
Everything I saw. DETECTIVE All right. Urn, it's uh, 10:43. We're going to go ahead and conclude the interview.
(This is the end of the interview Number 3.)